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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Apr 22, 2012 12:37:37 GMT 2
Are all the alty wires connected?
Fan belt may be slipping. I had this after hennops last year and after 2 or 3 days (100km) of the light on, the fan belt started to screech and then the light went off.
Ari
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Post by Charles on Apr 22, 2012 12:39:33 GMT 2
Bely is perfect. Fuse is fine. All wires connected. Alty tests fine on a test bench.
Charles
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Apr 22, 2012 12:52:26 GMT 2
Wire in dash might be loose??
Or wire to dash might be damaged somewhere?? Insulation damaged and its earthing somewhere??
Ari
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Post by sparky on Apr 22, 2012 14:38:14 GMT 2
I have the same problem, also engine light stays on
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Post by Charles on Apr 22, 2012 14:56:51 GMT 2
Because it stays on dimly I thought it might be a blown diode but it wasnt.
Charles
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Post by keithbatkins on Apr 22, 2012 14:59:16 GMT 2
The joys of Lada electrics :-) When CERATOTH's battery is fully charged and the ignition is turned on......no battery/alternator light shows. Turn the ignition off and the headlights on for a few minutes to take some charge out of the battery. Turn the ignition back on.....the battery/alternator lights shows. Start the car and the light goes off. So I am guessing that the alternator is charging the battery OK........and I'm leaving well alone :-) Regards to all at LOCSA, Keith and CERATOTH.
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Post by Charles on Apr 22, 2012 17:48:12 GMT 2
Maybe I should also leave this alone. Sometimes the light goes off.
Charles
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Post by Charles on Apr 22, 2012 18:00:05 GMT 2
Hahaha
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Apr 22, 2012 19:56:30 GMT 2
charles, i suspect your niva hes an earth problem. I don't know by heart how the charge light works, but i believe the light gets earth from the alt when the engine is running. You could have a cable broken
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2012 20:16:19 GMT 2
Hi, I just had a look at the wiring diagram and according to that, there is a diode in the dash cluster for the battery light. I don't know if that might be causing the problem?
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Apr 22, 2012 20:21:51 GMT 2
look at the dash diodes charles. Voltmeter. The voltmeter was fitted to the vehicles before 1996, then it was replaced by the low battery warning light; refer to Fig.7-4 for the relevant wiring diagram. Check the voltmeter by applying a known voltage. At voltage below (11.3±0.35) volts the voltmeter LED should light steadily. When the voltage is between (11.3±0.35) volts and (16±0.35) volts, the LED should not light. When the voltage is above (16±0.35) volts, the LED should flash. The voltmeter operates with a 5 second delay. Attachments:
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Post by sparky on Apr 22, 2012 20:34:25 GMT 2
charles, i suspect your niva hes an earth problem. I don't know by heart how the charge light works, but i believe the light gets earth from the alt when the engine is running. You could have a cable broken the pole that your charge light is connected to is negative untill you sart the engine then it swings positive, to check alternator, run a 12v test lamp from that pole to the positive on the battery (light will illuminate) start the engine and check that the light goes out, this will point you in the right direction (alternator faulty/wiring or cluster faulty
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Post by Charles on Apr 22, 2012 21:52:16 GMT 2
Thanks guys.
I have used a multimeter and checked the voltage supply on my alternator on the charge lamp pole and I got a 12v supply with the engine running. Keep in mind my alternator has a external voltage regulator fitted. Will check the cluster and again check the alternator. Might be a connection as it sometimes goes off.
Charles
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on May 1, 2012 12:33:19 GMT 2
Hi Guys This problem is not going away and I would appreciate some guidance so I can decide what to do. To continue the story ….. Frank, my AE friend had a quick look a couple of weeks ago and concluded that although all the ‘symptoms’ indicated an earth problem it wasn’t and I must get an external heat gauge as the one on the dash was broken. No problem but when he went back to Natal I noticed that the rev counter wasn’t working either. Phoned him and he said I should get Andre ( my starter motor friend) to look as it would either be a fuse or a loose wire which should only take a couple of minutes to fix. Andre, who is not an AE, came around yesterday and 3 hours later we were no further on. At some stage (not sure when) the dash lights had also stopped working although I did notice the handbrake light made a brief and very faint appearance when cranking the engine. Andre suggested that I post the following to see if anyone can assist or come up with any suggestions. Nikita is a 2000 TBI Niva and a photograph of the back of her instrument cluster is attached (hopefully) ;D 1. The photograph doesn’t exactly match the wiring diagram for models after 1996 shown in Fig.7-4- on page 164 of the manual, so it’s a bit confusing, but I’m pretty sure Nikita has the original instrument cluster 2. In particular, there is a big green resistor, shown on the top right of the photo which is not indicated in that position on the drawing and we can’t read the value because it is worn / burnt off. We think this must be the resistor that the first AE couldn't read that I referred to at the beginning of this thread. 3. CAN ANYONE HELP WITH THE VALUE OF THIS RESISTOR? Hercules gave me a couple of values earlier on, which are also shown in Fig.7-4, but this green one is in a different position to ones he indicated. 4. This green resistor gets extremely hot and there are burn marks on the plastic underneath it. 5. The connection to the left of the green resistor, gives a reading of 13.7v on Andre’s machine when the engine is running but shows no current when the ignition is switched on. 6. The connection to the right of the green resistor shows ZERO. 7. The wires running from either end of the green resistor seem to run down the right hand side of the cluster, along the bottom warning lights and up towards, and possibly beyond, the blue resister, which also gets warm. 8. The CHECK ENGINE bulb on the bottom right hand corner is missing and presumably dropped out at some stage – are these things readily available or can I ‘steal’ one of the others? Any idea what is going on here? Andre feels it’s something simple that he’s missing and, as always, any suggestions would be appreciated. I don’t mind buying an external temp gauge but if we can’t fix the rev counter I think I will have to look at a new instrument cluster which is not only pricey but also quite heavy. So, I'm only looking for good news. ;D NIKKI
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on May 1, 2012 12:35:08 GMT 2
First attempt at attaching the photo produced an error so I'll try again.
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Post by spikes on May 1, 2012 14:34:54 GMT 2
Hi Nikki Is this the drawings of the cluster that you and Andre are referring to? There are only two resistors shown, by elimination you should be able to deduce the green one's value
You can use the globe second from the left in your picture. That is the seatbelt warning light
You will probably find that the Engine Warning light stays on(which could explain it being missing)
Andre will then have to go through the fault code sequence checking.
If you do not have the Fault code procedure and codes. email me and will forward them
Regards
Spikes
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Post by spikes on May 1, 2012 14:37:42 GMT 2
Cluster in pdf in case you not yet downloaded the Docx reader Attachments:
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Post by marius on May 1, 2012 15:34:51 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
This is one area I unfortunately can't help you. However my brother that lives in the UK is also a qualified AE - I will ask him for some thoughts on the matter.
Best of luck Marius
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Post by marius on May 1, 2012 20:10:38 GMT 2
Hi Nikki I got some feedback from my brother. Obviously it is always better for someone like him to actually see the car in order to solve the electrical problems, but from what you described he is fairly certain that your problem is alternator related. According to him the diode (rectifier) in the alty overloaded/spiked at some stage that caused the multiple problems. This overload/spike is intermittent. He recommends that you test the alty for issues with the rectifier. Another cause could be that you or someone jump started the car the wrong way. This can also cause similar electrical issues. One more thing that can cause this type of issue is excessive acid from the bty. Hope it helps a bit Marius
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Post by ronnie on May 1, 2012 20:34:11 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
The value of the green resistor must be one of the 2 values given to you by Hercules. From what I remember the green resistor tends to discolour the back of all the clusters after a while. Replace the green resistor with a 36 ohm 5 watt one and see what happens. I think Hercules mentioned on some Niva`s this value changed to 51 ohm ?. Try whatever is appropriate for your model. The lamp you should get at any spares shop, but there are very often unused ones in the cluster you could use.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on May 1, 2012 20:41:49 GMT 2
Hi Nikiki
I have just read the reply from Marius and agree any of these could have caused the problem. It is easy for your auto electrician to check the Alternator and this should be done. The problem you now have will still need to be solved and I would try changing the resistor.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on May 1, 2012 21:07:16 GMT 2
Nikki I forgot to mention that according to my brother you should not worry about the resistor. It is very normal for a resistor to discolour like that because of the heat that is transferred.
Marius
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on May 1, 2012 23:24:55 GMT 2
Thank you so much guys – I’d be lost without your assistance! Spikes - the diagram we were looking at is the second one shown in your PDF file – for models after 1996. However, as this drawing only indicated the 2 resistors you mention (R1 and R2) and there are about seven additional small resisters on Nikita’s cluster, and other components were not in the same position, Andre seemed to think there could be another diagram, which appears not to be the case. As such, and as Hercules indicated earlier that R1 on this diagram is the Resister for the temp gauge = 470 Ohm, 0.25 Watt and R2 is the Resister for the alternator light = 51 Ohm, 5 Watt am I correct in thinking that R1 could be the green one on Nikita’s instrument cluster and R2 the blue one? Thank you also for all the additional info regarding the fault codes, and the other stuff that you emailed earlier. NIKKI
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Post by Nikki Lada on May 1, 2012 23:28:46 GMT 2
Marius Thank you so much for going to the trouble of getting hold of your brother – I really appreciate it and I'll certainly get the alternator checked. A couple of questions immediately come to mind but I’m sure I’ll think of more: ;D 1. If this is a diode (rectifier) related problem does this mean that the alternator will have to be replaced? 2. Could this problem have damaged the instrument cluster beyond repair? I don’t ever recall jump starting Nikita during the 6 years I’ve owned her but I guess some of the ‘Wallies’ she’s been subjected to over the years could have done something wrong. Thanks again NIKKI
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on May 1, 2012 23:32:09 GMT 2
Thank you also Ronnie – once I’ve had the alternator checked I’ll take it from there and hope for the best.
With regard to the green resistor, I did mention earlier that it gets very hot but this thing would blister your finger in a couple of seconds. ;D Is this normal?
NIKKI
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Post by marius on May 2, 2012 9:13:38 GMT 2
Hi Nikki No need to replace the alty - you can only repair it. It is the actual short/spike/overload that can damage the cluster like that. The cluster should still be repairable. My brother says the resister gets hot - but how hot he does not know. It normally turns black in the middle from all the heat. Marius
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on May 2, 2012 13:04:54 GMT 2
Thank you so much Marius - and please tell your brother I really appreciate his help. This sounds a bit more hopeful! NIKKI
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Post by marius on May 2, 2012 13:48:29 GMT 2
Only a pleasure Nikki I hope this will put you on track to sort out your issues. Electrical issues can quickly turn into a nightmare. Get someone reputable to repair the alty. Maybe you should consider a new cluster from Pavel?? Marius
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on May 3, 2012 8:01:54 GMT 2
Hopefully it will Marius. With regard to a new cluster, I emailed Pavel a few days ago and a new one costs $150 and weighs 1.4kg. Thanks again for all your trouble. NIKKI
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Post by Charles on May 3, 2012 18:14:23 GMT 2
Not too bad. A cluster for a newer cars is over R10 000.
Charles
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