Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on Nov 9, 2011 6:54:04 GMT 2
Hi Guys I’ve mentioned previously under Possible Cooling Modifications that Nikita’s temperature gauge is reading about 20 to 30 deg too high. I initially put it down to a faulty instrument cluster but subsequently discovered that if the lights were on when I switched the ignition off both the fuel and temperature gauges would swing all the way over to the right. I mentioned this to an AE friend of mine (who unfortunately lives in Natal and is now overseas for 6 weeks) who was convinced it was an earth problem that should be simple to fix. Ronnie also thought an earth problem was the cause. I finally saw the local AE the other day who thinks it’s some resistor under the dash but can’t fix it because he can’t measure the resistance because he doesn’t know what the value is. He says it isn’t shown in the manual. I find this hard to believe but as I don’t know what he’s talking about I don’t know what to look for. ;D Any assistance would be appreciated because I would really like to resolve this problem. Thanks a stack NIKKI
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Post by marius on Nov 9, 2011 9:01:35 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
I am no expert here but one of the most common places to look for electrical issues is the wire cluster running down the steering column. Have a close look at the conditions of the wires near the joint on the steering shaft. There is a big protruding nut/bolt that can easily damage the wires and cause a short. Use a plastic tie down to strap the wires well clear from the nut.
If any wires are damaged, separate the wires and cover each individual damaged wire with the appropriate tape for about 1cm on either side of the damaged area.
Marius
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Post by ronnie on Nov 9, 2011 9:28:22 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
I seem to remember there is a resistor on the back of the cluster. Not sure if this could cause the problem or not, but I would have thought the AE would have tried a couple of resistors of different values to see what the effect would be.
Ronnie
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Post by keithbatkins on Nov 9, 2011 9:46:32 GMT 2
Hi Nikki, following on from Ronnie's post; all resistors,as I understand it, the whole world over, are colour coded. Different body colours and colour banding denote the amount of the resistance. So unless the resistor has burnt out and is badly charred a 'good' AE should be able to identify it and sort out the proper replacement. As to which one is the 'problem' child in your cluster.....well sorry but I'm useless to you as I don't have a clue :-( Good Luck though. Keith and CERATOTH
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Post by ronnie on Nov 9, 2011 12:40:29 GMT 2
Hi Keith
You are correct, and a good AE should be able to fathom it out.
Ronnie
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Hercules
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Post by Hercules on Nov 10, 2011 21:18:43 GMT 2
Hi Nikki.
The values for the resisters behind the instrument cluster is on page 164 of the manual.
Pre 1996 cluster: Resister for temp gauge = 470 Ohm, 0.25 Watt. Resister for alternater light = 36 Ohm, 5 Watt.
1996 - On Cluster: Resister for temp gauge = 470 Ohm, 0.25 Watt. Resister for alternater light = 51 Ohm, 5 Watt.
Hope this can help you.
Regards.
Hercules.
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on Nov 10, 2011 21:33:26 GMT 2
Thank you guys – I also think that a good AE should have been able to fathom it out but I don’t really think he was all that interested. It’s quite nerve-racking when your temp gauge keeps heading for the red so I really wanted to sort this out but I’ll just have to wait ‘til my AE friend gets back. According to him (who is a very good AE) it should only take a few minutes so hopefully he can explain exactly what must be done and I’ll take it from there. In the interim I may look at fitting one of those external temperature gauges as a temporary measure but as I don’t want any holes in Nikita’s perfect dashboard I'll have to think about it!! ;D Marius – I’ve taken note of what you said and will hopefully be able to get this area checked out at the same time. Guys - thank you again - I would be really lost without the ongoing assistance I receive on this forum. NIKKI
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hoodoo
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Post by hoodoo on Nov 10, 2011 22:13:19 GMT 2
The gauges on my 1.6 always read higher with lights on than with lights off, but not to that extent. Be interested as to what and where the problem is once found. Regards, John
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on Nov 10, 2011 23:31:37 GMT 2
Thank you Hercules – I hadn’t seen your response when I posted earlier. This information will be very useful! NIKKI
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Post by danie on Nov 11, 2011 5:25:54 GMT 2
The gauges on my 1.6 always read higher with lights on than with lights off, but not to that extent. Regards, John Maybe just a weak earth connection somewhere ? Danie
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Post by marius on Nov 11, 2011 7:26:18 GMT 2
Another VERY weak link (1700) are those terrible "pc boards" on the rear lights - they can also cause electrical issues. They also need a good cleaning with contact cleaner every now and then.
Marius
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Post by ronnie on Nov 11, 2011 9:01:21 GMT 2
Hi Danie
I would say 90% of the time a bad earth is the likely cause of these mysterious electrical problems, followed by other bad connections.
Ronnie
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Post by keithbatkins on Nov 11, 2011 9:27:07 GMT 2
Hi Nikki, run your extra temperature gauge cable through under the glove box and use 'blu tac' on the back of the dial to do a temporary fix job to the dashboard until you get your 'real gauge' working properly. Wish that my dashboard was 'perfect' as I'm starting to get cracks in the plastic around the top....the SA sun seems to eat plastic dashboards :-( Regards, Keith and CERATOTH
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Nov 11, 2011 14:07:08 GMT 2
Thank you guys – I also think that a good AE should have been able to fathom it out but I don’t really think he was all that interested. It’s quite nerve-racking when your temp gauge keeps heading for the red so I really wanted to sort this out but I’ll just have to wait ‘til my AE friend gets back. According to him (who is a very good AE) it should only take a few minutes so hopefully he can explain exactly what must be done and I’ll take it from there. In the interim I may look at fitting one of those external temperature gauges as a temporary measure but as I don’t want any holes in Nikita’s perfect dashboard I'll have to think about it!! ;D Marius – I’ve taken note of what you said and will hopefully be able to get this area checked out at the same time. Guys - thank you again - I would be really lost without the ongoing assistance I receive on this forum. NIKKI Hi Nikki You could also consider a gauge pod. They come in single,double and triple gauge configs. 50mm gauges. From Autostyle in Jhb Spikes Attachments:
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on Nov 15, 2011 23:41:39 GMT 2
Thank you for the tips on the gauges Keith and Spikes! I bought an external temp gauge some time ago from Midas when the problem started so I will stick it down over the glove compartment as a temporary measure as suggested by Keith. If I don't manage to get my instrument cluster fixed I'll look at the gauge pods referred to by Spikes as I have been looking for something like this as a possible alternative for ages but never managed to find anything! Thanks again guys NIKKI
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Ladaniva
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Post by Ladaniva on Nov 17, 2011 22:22:21 GMT 2
Hi Nikki, Maybe the following info may help somebody else too (your experienced AE will sort you soon over the phone with a few questions, I am sure). In my opinion your heat guage is working fine, because the dials move from min to max with electrical input from wherever. The problem is rather with the temp sensor (or as others suggested maybe an earth problem). The resistor that the other AE could not find is in the temp sensor (the thingie screwing into the block). Remember that this resistor hidden in the temp sensor is crucial for the engine management system. The resistance changes with the heat that flows from the water into the temp sensor. This varying resistance to electric current/volts acts as a continuous stream of instructions the ECU to vary the quantity of fuel injected into the engine (a cold engine needs a rich mixture a hot engine through a certain range a leaner mixture). Just for interest sake, even the position of your accelerator pedal interacts with the reading of the temp sensor to calculate the correct quantity of fuel to inject into the engine! at a certain injection time/range/rpm. I attached a resistance table for the temp sensor of a Niva that I found on the net (Gadget Boy from Lada UK forum is the guy that did all the work). It shows that at low water temp the resistance is low and at high heat the resistance is high - if the temp sensor is working right/is the right one for the Niva (basic electric - law here). At this point the likes of Charles would long ago stopped reading and was heading for the spares counter to fetch a temp sensor to replace the one on your Niva. Once he replaced the temp sensor the next thing he would do is not to take a lunch break, but to head for the CO tester to see that the air fuel mixture of your Niva is correct. The next thing you should do is to buy him a milk tart with the money you saved on your fuel bill/reliability of your Niva, because the ECU will now ensure a much more optimal air/fuel ratio (at the correct timing) if Charles knew what he was doing (or used a dyno). The above info regarding the instructions of the temp sensor to the ECU of a fuel injected Niva should hopefully convince the few who run their Nivas without a Niva thermostat to come to their senses. Please note that I am sharing information here and not saying that I solved the problem of your heat gauge showing way to high, because surely the needles of the two gauges should not swing widely if you switch off the ignition with the lights on. Please let us know what was wrong when your AE friend sorted out the mysterious problem. Regards, Fanus
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Ladaniva
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Post by Ladaniva on Nov 17, 2011 22:27:33 GMT 2
Hi Nikki, Attached please find the different resistance readings of the temp sensor of a Niva. This table was compiled by Gadget Boy on the Niva UK forum. Regards, Fanus Attachments:
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Post by Charles on Nov 17, 2011 22:33:28 GMT 2
I am having problems with my bat light, it glows dimly 90% of the time, and my handbrake light. It glows very dimly but doesnt go bright, not even if I shory the switch out. When I swich my indicators on the bat light goes dimmer with each flash. This tells me it is a earth problem. What wire is the earth for the cluster? I want to put a extra earth wire in but the wiring diagram is a bit unclear.
Charles
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Nov 18, 2011 10:22:01 GMT 2
Hi Charles
Not sure cant find it on the diagrams, take the cluster out to look.
Ari
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Post by Charles on Nov 18, 2011 13:26:52 GMT 2
I have. Will get into it tomorrow.
Charles
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on Jan 18, 2012 22:03:00 GMT 2
Thank you so much for all the info, Fanus, and apologies for taking so long to get back to you but for some reason I seem to have missed this post. Anyway, when this problem started a couple of years ago I went through a whole process of elimination trying to find out the cause of the ‘overheating’ and replacing the temp sensor was part of this process. Unfortunately, it didn’t make any difference and eventually, after running out of possibilities, I realized that it had to be the gauge itself. After some tests at Silverton Radiators they confirmed that the gauge was reading approximately 20 to 30 degrees too high. I then spoke to Frank (my AE friend) who suggested an external temp gauge but before I got around to getting one fitted I noticed the funny things that were happening when the lights were on. When I mentioned this to Frank he immediately said that it was an earth problem. I haven’t really discussed the problem in detail since he returned from his holiday because he is planning a visit in April and promised to fix it for me then if I don’t come right. As I think this will probably be the best option, I haven’t really tried very hard to come right! A friend of mine has offered to look at it – and I’m sure Frank could walk him through it – but as I'm pretty sure he helped to destroy Nikita's cylinder head a few years ago I think it will probably be safer to leave it for Frank. ;D Either way, I will keep you guys posted. NIKKI
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Post by sparky on Apr 19, 2012 18:40:57 GMT 2
the lada has such crappy electrics ? fitted central locking to boris today, first time i've come across such low capacity wiring on an ignition switch
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Post by Charles on Apr 19, 2012 18:44:10 GMT 2
A ignition switch does not have to be high capacity as everything that draws high power goes through a relay.
Charles
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Post by ronnie on Apr 19, 2012 19:24:21 GMT 2
Hi Charles
You are correct, no matter what vehicle you have you should only use the ignition circuit to power the coil of the relay. The load should be taken from the battery via a fuse, with the fuse as close to the battery as possible. Central locking is a good addition to have. (In my opinion)
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on Apr 19, 2012 19:53:40 GMT 2
I also love my remote central locking.
Charles
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Apr 21, 2012 17:46:17 GMT 2
Thank you Ronnie
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Post by Charles on Apr 21, 2012 19:26:06 GMT 2
Vincent nice to see you on the forum again.
Charles
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Post by keithbatkins on Apr 21, 2012 20:33:19 GMT 2
Thanks for that Ronnie. My 'new' airhorn has now finally been installed as per your advice and scares the pants off me with its decibels. Should be a real match when it comes up against a minibus taxi :-) As to central locking.....CERATOTH has had that from day one.....my arms are really long and can easily reach the passenger door lock button ! Regards to all at LOCSA, Keith and CERATOTH.......beep,beep .
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Post by Charles on Apr 22, 2012 12:24:25 GMT 2
Need help. My bat light stays on. The alty charges fine. All the diodes are fine.
When the engine is running the light stays on dimly lit.
Any advice?
I can just not figure this one out.
Charles
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Ihar
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Post by Ihar on Apr 22, 2012 12:34:13 GMT 2
Lada electric problems ...
Try remove the fuse and replace it, think it is fuse 2 or 9, I forget. I had problems a while back with the entire dash dying and came right when I replaced the fuse.
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