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Post by danie on Jul 15, 2010 19:56:09 GMT 2
I am nut sure if anyone has any experience regarding Lada gearbox repairs, but I think it could be very helpful by times if we share any applicable knowledge in this regard under this Thread.
This video clip by Ahma (from Sweden) shows the most common problems on a Lada Gearbox:
And this video clips (also by Ahma) shows how to strip a Lada Gearbox
Anyone who knows about any professional Company in South Africa (apart from the Agents) who do have experience / knowledge about Lada Gearboxes, please feel free to forward more details (Co. name, location, etc.) as well.
Regards
Danie
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Post by marius on Jul 15, 2010 21:07:00 GMT 2
Hi Danie
This could be a very useful thread.
Apart from undoing a lot of nuts and bolts (one in particular is very nasty) the gearbox itself is actually very easy to work on. The most difficult thing to do is to actually take the rear cover off. You have to twist it a certain way to be able to pull it off over the reverse gear.
Tip: The manual states you should leave the car in neutral - but it is much easier to remove the cover with 2nd gear engaged. You can always put it back in neutral once the cover is off. Do the same to put the cover back on.
Regards Marius
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Post by danie on Jul 16, 2010 6:18:23 GMT 2
Thanks Marius, that sounds very encouraging.
I am very curious about the lock washer at the rear output shaft, and will ask some questions later.
Regards
Danie
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Post by marius on Jul 16, 2010 7:45:57 GMT 2
Morning Danie
That lock washer is vital - no matter what.
I forgot to mention that - unlike the manual - it is best to remove the gear leaver as if you're going to fill with oil. Makes the removal and fitting much easier. Fill the hole with a clean rag to prevent stuff from falling in.
On the top right hand corner of the clutch housing is a very nasty bolt. I decided - contrary to advice - not to put it back on. Apparently it will cause more vibration.
In my opinion - Obviously it would be better to fit the bolt but the rest of the bolts should keep everything in place - and I did not pick up any extra vibration with the bolt removed.
Make your own judgement though - but if you round the edges on that bolt - your car is as good as DEAD.
Regards Marius
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Post by marius on Jul 16, 2010 13:21:39 GMT 2
Another thing worth mentioning - I found that the screws on the thrust plate holding the main bearing on the output shaft in place tend to come loose. I recommend Loctite here ;D.
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darryn
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Post by darryn on Aug 15, 2010 13:14:05 GMT 2
Yo Marius... My 2nd gear is meshing much better now for some reason... Could this be because of the better oil? Still hellova noisy, though. I'll have some bucks this week to get the gearbox overhauled- I just don't have the time right now to do it myself. One of the things that this whole experience has made me want is my own garage/workshop. Living in a security complex has some serious drawbacks.
Laters.
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Post by marius on Aug 15, 2010 21:13:58 GMT 2
I'm sure the new oil is doing it's bit. The noise is probably a bearing - my guess the little needle bearing between the input and output shaft.
PS - did you try some of the stuff in my reply to your PM?
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Jaco
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Post by Jaco on Aug 16, 2010 11:50:51 GMT 2
Having some experience on different gearboxes, the Lada box is quite simple actually. I stripped mine, found the bearings worn really bad. It jumps out of third gear, the selector fork is worn a lot. From what I can see, the reason for this is that, different from other gearboxes, the selector "keeps" it in gear, not the synchro unit. Or am I wrong? Can I just build up the fork again?
Jaco
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Post by ronnie on Aug 16, 2010 15:43:18 GMT 2
Hi Jaco
I am no expert on gearboxes but I am sure the selector forks do not keep it in gear. If you do not have a workshop manual you can download it for free. On our home page click on General, go to page 4, near the bottom click on Web sites I use, then click Turbo nutter. You will get the manual here. I tried just now to access this site and there appears to be a problem, just keep trying. You will also see a lot of interesting Lada sites here, Baxters is to be recomended.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Aug 16, 2010 15:59:13 GMT 2
Hi Jaco
I would say it's a combination of both. A badly worn selector fork and/or syncro will cause it to jump out of gear.
What actually keeps it in gear is the indent spring and ball - they can also break or get weak but it is unlikely.
Regards Marius
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Jaco
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Post by Jaco on Aug 18, 2010 12:06:19 GMT 2
Hi Guys, I'm having some difficulty finding bearings for the gearbox. Tried 2 different local bearing suppliers. Any suggestions of who I can try?
Jaco
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Post by marius on Aug 18, 2010 13:16:16 GMT 2
Hi Jaco
Danie would probably give you a better idea where to find the bearings but you should be able to find them at any bearing shop like SKF.
The only one you would not get from those shops is the needle bearing - but you should be able to find it at any of the dealers in SA or you can order it from Russia/EU.
I suggest that you contact Ventz for the bearings if you struggle to find any.
Here are the parts numbers supplied by Danie: Part no 2101 - 1701033 = SKF 615722 Part no 2101 - 1701108 = Needle bearing, not available in SKF Part no 2101 - 1701190 = SKF 6306NR Part no 2107 - 1701073 = SKF 613441 Part no 2101 - 1701068 = SKF 616073 Part no 2107 - 1701073 = SKF 613441 (2 bearings) Part no 2108 - 1701031 = SKF NJ205ECP
Regards Marius
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Jaco
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Post by Jaco on Aug 19, 2010 14:24:39 GMT 2
Marius, I've tried the SKF nrs allready, with no luck. I've come upon 2 gearboxes and a transfer case in the meantime. I will collect it next week, apparently one gearbox was recently reconditioned. As soon as my Lada is running, I will be able to put the rest of the spares availlable on the forum for anyone who might be interested.
Jaco
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Post by marius on Aug 19, 2010 14:40:04 GMT 2
Jaco that sounds good - I hope they did a good job on the gearbox?
Just a personal note on bearings for the Lada - I have great trust in the original Russian bearings (provided they are well lubricated) and I replaced only 2 bearings so far in 10 years on the Niva (the needle bearing) and the one at the end of the input shaft. The last one mentioned was still in perfect condition.
Most bearings from SKF etc are from China and are of inferior quality.
Regards Marius
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Post by darryn on Aug 19, 2010 17:57:59 GMT 2
Hey comradskis,
I purchased the bearing overhaul set from Ladaworld (I tried to buy directly from Mastersport, but for a bunch of germans their service was awful) for R950 including postage (all major bearings + backing ring + 2 oil seals). I decided that instead of opening the box up and then having to buy the bearings individually- which could become radically expensive for original Lada bearings- that this would be a better way. Also, Bearingman could not supply me with half the bearings at a competitive price.
Master sport actually makes many spec components for Lada (so I'm led to believe). I'll let you all know what happens when I send the box in for overhaul.
Marius, I've not had the time to do some of the tricks on the gearbox that you said... Some days, even 3min is a lot!
Laters.
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Post by danie on Aug 19, 2010 18:23:20 GMT 2
Hi All
If anyone knows at what price a complete set of bearings is available at the local Importers, please let us know.
Regards
Danie
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darryn
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Post by darryn on Aug 19, 2010 18:49:11 GMT 2
I have all prices as quoted from Ventz, but I'm loathe to put them up without his consent- or am I threatening transparency?
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Post by ronnie on Aug 19, 2010 19:22:10 GMT 2
Hi Darryn Lets see the prices thats what Locsa is all about. SHARING I am sure Ventz has nothing to hide. Ronnie
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Post by danie on Aug 19, 2010 19:36:38 GMT 2
It would also be very helpful if anyone could let us know about prices at the other two importers..........
Regards
Danie
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Post by darryn on Aug 19, 2010 19:38:28 GMT 2
They're more pricey than the MasterSport bearings etc, but if I had the money I'd definitely have spent it on these bearings. Also, I haven't found any prices for any other component cheaper than Ventz. For instance, Ventz's complete intermediate shaft assembley is cheaper than Jan's RECONDITIONED 2nd hand CV joint for the intermediate. We have a friend in PMB it seems.
Selector fork 21010-1702024-00 R258.16 Synchro hub 21010-1701119-00 R322.64 Synchro sleeve 21010-1701116-00 R986.48 Thrust washer 21010-1701038-00 R28.31 Lockwasher 21010-1701243-00 R17.20 Bearing 4th speed 21010-1701033-00 R598.66 Bearing needle 21010-1701108-01 R122.86 Bearing 5th speed 21070-1701190-00 R324.50 Bearing double 21010-1701068-00 R388.26 Bearing 21070-1701073-00 R418.24 Bearing 21080-1701031-01 R365.40 Intermediate shaft assy 21213-2202010-00 R3642.60
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Post by ronnie on Aug 20, 2010 19:17:14 GMT 2
Hi All
AS this is gearbox related I will post it here. Ari i think mentioned he had problems with the gearbox reverse light switch. Mine is leaking oil, so I swapped it with the diff lock sw which is exactly the same but is not down under the oil level. Ari, if your switch is working when you try it by hand but not when you put it in the gearbox try reducing the thickness of the washer. This will allow the switch to be deeper into the box and should fix the problem. Remember to use a copper washer. The washers on mine were 1mm and 1.5mm
Ronnie
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Aug 20, 2010 19:28:35 GMT 2
Thanks Ronnie I'll try that at my next service when I'll be changing the gearbox oil.
Ari
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Post by ronnie on Aug 22, 2010 9:53:36 GMT 2
Hi Ari
One thing I forgot to say regarding the reverse lt sw is the clossest spanner size is 27mm. Not every body has one and if you want to use a socket it must be a deep one. It is not easy to get an adjustable one in.
Ronnie
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Post by darryn on Sept 3, 2010 22:18:48 GMT 2
Comradskis
I took the lada to the gearbox guys and today. I was shown that the damage to the gearbox is a lot more extensive than I thought. The baulk rings for gears 4 and 5 are shot, which means that the syncro sleeves for 5th and 4th are also busted.
But... After a considerable amount of panic, I realized that I can actually fix this. OK- the baulk rings are not possible to fix, but the meshing teeth on the sleeves and meshing gears on the gears themselves are doable. We have a pencil grinder at the workshop and if I can find the "right" bit, I could grind away the flat spots on the teeth. I will only be taking away max 1mm on each tooth, which I'm sure is an acceptable tolerance. I will post pics to show and tell.
If I get this right, I will have saved a whopping R4000. Pray I get it right.
Later
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Post by danie on Sept 4, 2010 7:11:15 GMT 2
Hi Darryn
Glad to see you decided to repair the box - it makes sense to repair the box rather to buy "a good" one which also might have problems.
Regards
Danie
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Post by darryn on Sept 4, 2010 11:50:40 GMT 2
Yeah... there are some mistakes I've made that will never be repeated I'm happy that this option seems viable, I'm gonna do it!
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Post by darryn on Sept 22, 2010 22:04:42 GMT 2
OK- three weeks later and I'll have my lad back tomorrow. I spoke to Joe about tampering with the gears and he advised me against it. The good news is that the sycro rings work and this will negate the meshing teeth being worn. But... I had to get a new release bearing assembly because old one's clip broke, so the whole assembly slipped and was worn on the sides. The bearing was finished as well, so I got a whole new assembly from Ventz. Good prices, good times.
But, the sleeve that the release bearing slides on had been welded by the previous owner, so it has been warped and is now slightly off center. Annoying. Also, I had to bore out the release bearing assembly body to fit on this sleeve (not sure why it didn't seat properly, it should be standard, but maybe the welding didn't help). The nut on the output shaft then stripped. I quickly went to the engineering shop down the road and they machined one for me, but walloped me on the price. I was desperate because no fasteners in the area had a nut like this, so I won't mention the price in civilized conversation. The workshop then put everything back together again, but couldn't get any clutch. Turns out, they didn't check the clutch to see whether it's still OK. It's not. The new release bearing does not seat properly where the old one did on the pressure plate, and the clutch plate is " heeltemal klaar", as the technician so elegantly put it. So the whole thing had to be stripped again, and I had to scrape some cash together to get an new clutch. In a prefect world, clutch plates and pressure plates would be available on their own. So I ordered a Valeo clutch kit from Centpart, and it arrived today.
Everything will be assembled by lunchtime tomorrow. It had better f***ing be. Although I'm frustrated by the whole thing, the workshop (valenti gearbox exchange) who has done this for me have been very accommodating (and cheap), and have allowed me to work on the carb and replace the fuel line and a couple of other small things, with their own tools, in the shop. Maybe they think I'm a pain in the ass, or they're just really good "ouens" and they don't mind. I think if things were busier, they'd get annoyed. But, because of the clutch and the syncros and (now surplus) release bearing assembly, I'm R2k in over budget and my eyes are watering. If anyone is wondering, I saw all the parts and the assembly of the box and I've been quite pedantic about leaving instructions with the technicians (maybe not a good move, but worthwhile if they were heeded) and I have all the buggered parts as proof.
The moral of the story: although the stripping etc, was someone else's problem this time, I could have done it faster and cheaper. The only reason why I was forced to use these guys is because I can't leave the Lada outside my workshop anymore- too much of a security risk. If I had my own space, I would do it on my own in a heartbeat.
Laters.
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Post by marius on Sept 23, 2010 13:40:08 GMT 2
Hi Darryn The gearbox guys seems like a nice bunch - you should hold onto them. You should also get Ventz to send you a propper nut if you think the reworked nut is up to no good. I hope you listened to me and replaced the washer with a proper lock washer Ventz might even have the lock washer? Hope that your clutch get sorted Regards Marius
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Post by ronnie on Sept 23, 2010 14:38:29 GMT 2
Hi Darryn.
Hope you get your Niva back tonight. Let me know how it is as I am sure we all want to know ;D. I notice you bought a Valeo clutch kit, and see this is one of the one`s that the Pretoria dealer says do not last. Normally it is through abuse that a clutch does not last. I sometimes wonder if he makes LESS money on the brands he does not recommend. ;D ;D ;D
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on Sept 23, 2010 16:03:41 GMT 2
Hi all
From experience I have learnt that the Valeo clutches is excellent. All the Reanults use them. A very expensive clutch though. The nice thing about it is the pressure plate doesn't go hard after time.
Charles
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