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Post by cswhitehead on Nov 8, 2011 8:04:36 GMT 2
Howzit guys.
I few weeks ago my lada started jumping out of 4th gear. And i have ignored it as i dont know how to fix and i also haven't had the time. But last night it jumped out again and now i cant even get into 4th. Everytime i try it just grates. Im nervous to take it apart as i probably wont get it together again. Any advise or cant anybody tell me what the problem might be and the solution?
Cheers Chris
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Post by marius on Nov 8, 2011 12:58:00 GMT 2
Hi Chris
You will probably find a broken spring (thrust) washer on the input shaft between the bell housing and the gearbox. However you have waited a bit too long and you most probably damaged the 4th gear and the syncro hub and the sycro ring as well. You will need to replace the above and whilst you are at it replace the big fat washer behind the nut on the output shaft with the proper lock washer.
Regards Marius
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Post by cswhitehead on Nov 8, 2011 13:38:40 GMT 2
Thanks for the reply. Where will i be able to find the parts? Hopefully il be able to have her fixed up and running again soon.
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Post by marius on Nov 8, 2011 13:49:38 GMT 2
Hi Chris Have a look here for possible suppliers. If you are in a hurry and don't mind to pay a premium you can order locally - or you can order from Pavel or the UK. locsa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sparep&action=display&thread=652I would also advise that you first open up the gearbox to see exactly what parts you need - there might be other damaged components as well. Marius
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Post by danie on Nov 8, 2011 18:35:46 GMT 2
Hi Chris To get access to the Thrust Ring you just need to separate the Bellhousing from the Gearbox, and you will find it here: It will be interesting to know whether the Thrust Ring on your Gearbox (if it is broken) is also worn like the one at the left (with shiny inner part), at this pic: To my mind replacing the Thrust Ring only, is not a permanent solution. While you will also have access to the two Gearbox bearings when the Bellhousing has been removed, it might be worthwhile to have a close look at the outer Rings of the two Bearings as well. If the Thrust Ring on your Gearbox is warn / broken, there is a huge possibility that the outer Ring of the Bearing which press against the Thrust Ring, is slipping in the gearbox Housing, and that the friction has caused the worn / broken Thrust Ring. To prevent future wear on a new Thrust Ring, I think it is important to make sure that the outer Ring of the specific Bearing do not slip inside the Housing. To remove the rear cover on the Gearbox, you also need to remove the bottom Gearbox cover, and then remove the Nut which can be seen at this pic: Danie
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spencer
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Post by spencer on Nov 28, 2011 18:25:41 GMT 2
Hi Guys.
I need some advice. Kalashnikov started jumping out of fourth gear today. According to my wife it happens when she lifts her foot off the accelerator.
Currently the clutch master cylinder needs to be replaced, so the gear shifts can be a bit tricky in traffic.
We have always been careful of the 5th gear, 80km/h thing.
I don't have any serious or visible leaks on the gearbox and it is a bit overfilled as is the recommendation.
Do I need to be concerned?
Regards Spencer
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Post by Charles on Nov 28, 2011 18:46:55 GMT 2
Hi Spencer
It might be something small like worn engine or gearbox mounting alowing the mox to move a bit too much when you let go of the throttle or it can be someting more serious like a worn selector fork. That was the problem on mine. Most likely due to incorrect oil.
Charles
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Post by marius on Nov 28, 2011 19:44:51 GMT 2
Hi Spencer Normally it is a broken thrust ring (2101-1701038) that fits between the gearbox and the bell housing. The thrust ring breaks and allows the input shaft to float and in turn prevents 4th gear to engage. It can also be something else - but first check there. The latest info I have on this is - if the thrust ring looks shiny (worn) it is no problem but look for cracks and breaks on the ring. It is a very cheap fix but you will have to remove the gearbox. The 5th gear issue is exactly the same but the loose nut is the root cause. Either way you should take a look sooner rather than later.Danie>> I just realized that I gave you the wrong parts number here Marius
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Nov 28, 2011 20:04:47 GMT 2
Hi Spencer
The thrust ring is more than likely the suspect.
When overhauling my 1700's gear box recently, I found the thrust ring to be the root cause of the problem.
Regards Vincent
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spencer
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Post by spencer on Nov 29, 2011 6:41:04 GMT 2
Thanx Guys, I was worried that the box has to come out. Its just not the most convenient time of the year for me.
My rear diff is also leaking on the left, so some downtime was scheduled for early January to sort that out, this will just come onto the list.
Regards Spencer
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Post by Charles on Nov 29, 2011 10:32:51 GMT 2
Spencer the sideshaft oil seal that's leaking is a quick and easy fix. The seal is avalible aftermaket. In the back of the spares catalog they list all the sizes. Then you should be able to get a seal from any spares place.
A even better option would be to get one from Ventz. I do not know if the seals are directional.
Charles
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Nov 29, 2011 10:51:16 GMT 2
nope, they're not, L and R are the same
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Post by Charles on Nov 29, 2011 14:54:26 GMT 2
Thought so. Just wasnt sure. Im running local seals. No problems.
Charles
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spencer
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Post by spencer on Nov 30, 2011 17:10:08 GMT 2
Thanx for the seals info, was a tad worried about that.
Spencer
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Post by danie on Nov 30, 2011 19:06:00 GMT 2
Hi Spencer Just remove the Gearbox, and then you have to remove the Bellhousing from the Gearbox. The Trust Ring can be seen here: The problem has to be solved as soon as possible , and trying to keep the gear in place by hand is not a good idea - it will just cause more wear, and the repair will be more costly . Danie
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spencer
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Post by spencer on Dec 1, 2011 20:55:29 GMT 2
Hi Danie.
That seems simple enough to do. Yes, we are limiting Kalashnikov to only essential driving and the only driving at 60km/h in 3rd.
Things should start slowing down in about 2 weeks, then I can start fixing it.
Spencer
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Post by danie on Dec 2, 2011 17:42:36 GMT 2
Hi Spencer Just remember to drain the gearbox oil before the Bellhousing gets removed from the gearbox Housing....... If the Thrust Ring on your Gearbox is broken, it will be interesting to know whether the broken Thrust Ring is also worn where is presses against the outer bearing Ring. Just have a good look at the outer bearing Ring - you will probably find that it is slipping in the gearbox Housing..... A better explanation can be found here: locsa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=technical&action=display&thread=908Danie
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spencer
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Post by spencer on Dec 4, 2011 17:53:24 GMT 2
Hi Danie.
Thanx for the reply.
I have realized something else. With my clutch master cylinder being less than perfect, I have adjusted my slave to the max. The effect is that the clutch hardly disengages. You can not keep it depressed in traffic because the car starts moving after a while.
I will replace the master and see what gives or does not gives.
This will probably explain alot of the wrong kind of thing. Can't think why I did not mention this at the beginning.
At least we have proved that a niva does not stop for nothing...
Spencer
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Post by danie on Dec 4, 2011 19:01:38 GMT 2
Hi Spencer
If I remember correctly, someone has reported an aftermarket cylinder kit at the "Aftermarket Spare Part" thread.
I have also noticed a slight leak at my Lada's Clutch cylinder, and the rubber dust seal is completely nagged . The cylinder itself might still be in good condition, but I have ordered a new one from Pavel at $17.00 recently- should arrive this week...
Danie
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spencer
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Post by spencer on Dec 5, 2011 10:10:29 GMT 2
HI Danie.
Yes, I am on the trail of a "aftermarket cylinder". Mine has a groove the like the fishriver canyon in the sleeve, so I need a new one. I have some helpful spares people in Krugersdorp, which helps alot.
Regards Spencer
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Post by danie on Dec 5, 2011 20:17:18 GMT 2
Hi Spencer
Another option is to contact a firm who specialize in re-sleeving cylinders - they are usually located at the bigger cities.
Stainless steel sleeves can also be manufactured, which should last for many years. Labour costs are usually quite steep though, and one obviously have to find a suitable seal kit as well.
Regards
Danie
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Post by Charles on Dec 5, 2011 20:57:00 GMT 2
Spencer a UNO master cylynder looks similar to the Niva one.
Charles
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spencer
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Post by spencer on Dec 6, 2011 11:30:03 GMT 2
Hi Charles.
I have fallen in that trap before. Bought a uno clutch slave with the offset holes, but is was not the same... The guys at my local brake&clutch looked at the uno master and said it was different from the sample I had.
Maybe someone can confirm if it is identical or not?
Spencer
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Hanno Oostenbrink
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Post by Hanno Oostenbrink on Jun 7, 2013 13:43:51 GMT 2
Hi guys,
My 4th gear has started to jump out when I remove my foot from the throttle and try to accelerate again. It does however stay in gear if I keep my foot on the gas.
I want to open up the gearbox in about 3weeks from now but have to drive 300km X2 in 2 weeks time. Is the problem serious or can I drive like this for now? What could be the possible cause?
I wouldn't call myself a pro mechanic but have done a few small things on the lada (clutch slave cyllinder, thermostat and alternator brushes replacement etc). How difficult a job would the gearbox be because I am keen to learn.
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jun 7, 2013 13:56:40 GMT 2
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Jun 7, 2013 15:49:15 GMT 2
Thrust ring btew gearbox and bellhousing, you dont neet to open the box.
Ari
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Ihar
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Post by Ihar on Jun 7, 2013 16:01:45 GMT 2
Hanno, for a novice, book out a saturday, but can be done in 4 to 5 hours (quicker if you have a pit to park the vehicle over). I will give more info later. You need to purchase a thrust ring, about R120 from Ventz, but he goes away next weekend for 11 weeks, so I would suggest contacting him to get one before he leaves.
Tjeers
Steve
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Hanno Oostenbrink
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Post by Hanno Oostenbrink on Jun 7, 2013 20:31:01 GMT 2
Thx guys for quick response! wil contact ventz
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Hanno Oostenbrink
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Post by Hanno Oostenbrink on Jun 12, 2013 19:34:12 GMT 2
Took it all apart (took about 15hrs and had to buy a few tools that I needed anyways) and the thrust ring was indeed broken! Have never been so glad to see a broken part!
Putting it all back on monday, any pointers on refitting the gearbox? any threads already on that?
Thx for all the help so far!
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jun 12, 2013 20:08:49 GMT 2
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