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Post by marius on Jul 26, 2011 19:52:46 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
I used a mixture of mainly (normal) cv grease and LM grease and left it to mix with what little oil was left in the box. The only red grease I use is rubber grease.
I do agree Spikes - there is no ways you can compare the lube requirements and specs in the gearbox/diffs or industrial machinery with what is required in the steering box.
Regards Marius
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Jul 26, 2011 20:17:39 GMT 2
Hi Gents,
Unlike an industrial gearbox, I will not find a Lada RHD steering box on the shelf.
All steering boxes are subject to many vibrations and shocks from the tyres and road.with very small steering inputs. Greases are displaced and it is left to the oil to provide the lubrication.
regards Vincent
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Jul 26, 2011 20:26:49 GMT 2
The lada manual requires an API GL-5 lubricant for the steering box. The worm and wheel steering mechanism generates high thrusts and is no longer used.
An industrial box generally runs under constant loads and speeds. A Lada steering box is never constant.
My last comment on this is to use an oil. IF and only IF the steering box leaks, use a semi-fluid or "self levelling" EP grease.
Regards Vincent
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Post by marius on Jul 26, 2011 20:49:08 GMT 2
Hi Gents, Unlike an industrial gearbox, I will not find a Lada RHD steering box on the shelf. regards Vincent You'll do even better with a set of those Nankangs! ;D Marius
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Jul 28, 2011 19:16:10 GMT 2
Lol Marius.
I agree. The Nankangs are VERY high on my list of desirable purchases.
Perhaps you have raised an important point which is the following:-
To save your (even more than Cerato) endangered RHD steering box, fit the Nankangs in super sexy 175/80/16 profile and then fill your steering box with oil ;D.
What are the stocks on Nankangs looking like Marius?
Regards Vincent
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Jul 28, 2011 19:20:36 GMT 2
I did 400 km yesterday and when I got home (20h30) with an air temperature of about 16 deg C, the steering box was just on 60 degC. My trip home was highway (120km/h) so there was a lot of airflow to assist with cooling the steering box. Perhaps Keith or Hera who travel in GP traffic will let us know what the temperature is like after a stint in the N1/N3/N12 parking lot Regards Vincent
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Post by keithbatkins on Jul 28, 2011 19:58:40 GMT 2
Hi Vincent, only too happy to take the steering box's temperature. It will most probably be a lot lower than mine after I've finished fighting with the potholes How did you take yours ? So that we can compare 'apples with apples'. Regards, Keith
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Jul 28, 2011 20:10:12 GMT 2
Hi Keith
My volt meter has a PT100 temperature probe that plugs in.
What area are you in during the day? Pop in to any BMG branch and ask them that you want to check out their infrared thermometers. Then pop out and take the temperature of the steering box.
Berry berry sneaky
Regards Vincent
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Post by marius on Jul 28, 2011 21:00:02 GMT 2
;D Thanks for posting Vincent. Still early days and quite cold but this could be good news for grease in the box. Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jul 29, 2011 9:04:05 GMT 2
Hi Vincent
I must have misseed something, what is the good news for grease in the box?.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 29, 2011 9:16:01 GMT 2
Hi Marius and Spikes
On the subject of load on a steering box, if the load was very low there would be little reason for the box to develop wear. I consider the load on the box to be high and to be even worse when bigger tyres are fitted IE even Sidekick tyres. If the load was low there would be no need for EP oil. Vincent, perhaps you could comment on this.
Ronnie
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Post by keithbatkins on Jul 29, 2011 16:49:42 GMT 2
Good Evening Vincent. I managed to borrow a K Type thermocouple from a colleague which fits my 266C Voltmeter. These are the readings I got before and after a trip to Johannesburg, which ended with my 10km drive down the M2 to home at around 80kmp. 1200 Ambient Temp 12C Steering Box Temp 10C Engine cold. 1600 Ambient Temp 8C Steering Box Temp 32C Engine +/- 95C The steering box is filled with CV Joint Grease because; as mentioned in my earlier post; the (better option) oil runs out faster than I can pour it in Hope this info is of some help and I shall repeat the excercise again over the weekend whilst I still have the temperature probe before it has to go back on Monday. Regards, Keith.
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Post by marius on Jul 29, 2011 17:38:48 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
I think Vincent already made some comment about the load on the steering box. Apart from his comments - under inflated and over sized tyres should have a negative effect.
I think it is also good practice (if at all possible) not to turn the steering wheel when the car is stationary.
The good news that you missed out on - is that the temp is well within the range of what is required from grease in the box.
The real test will obviously be when it is summer but I don't expect any issues.
Marius
PS - I forgot to ask why in your view your bearings in the box collapsed?
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Post by ronnie on Jul 29, 2011 17:47:39 GMT 2
Hi Marius I still think it is very bad policy to fill a steering box with grease as a permanent solution. Grease is the wrong lubricant to use. I doubt if you can find a manufacturer who recommends it. Extreme pressure oil is there for a reason. The load on the the moving parts in the box is high. I also think it is bad policy to advocate using the wrong lubricant to members who may have little knowledge of these things. they are left wondering Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jul 29, 2011 19:47:58 GMT 2
Ronnie I think you miss the point that I do agree that GL-5 gear oil is the better option for the steering box – but a suitable grease as an alternative (which is better than very little or no oil) is and can be a viable option when it is difficult to keep oil in the box. I fail to see anything wrong with that – especially now that we have some positive temperature readings. Frankly I would think the steering is not under much load during normal driving conditions. As far as I am concerned I am an avid supporter of protecting the RHD steering box and I think my efforts with regard to the import of suitable Nankangs for the standard rim speaks for itself. Marius PS - you failed to answer my question
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Post by spikes on Jul 29, 2011 20:06:16 GMT 2
The lubrication of the box: This is from Castrol UK site "CASTROL MOLY GREASE High melting point, lithium based grease containing molybdenum, providing dry lubrication under extreme operating conditions. Ideally suited for the following applications; King pins and bushes, shackles and suspension trunnions, bevel worm and peg steering boxes CASTROL L/EP0 Lithium based, semi-fluid grease. Ideally suited for use in grease packed differentials and gearboxes requiring a semi-liquid, self-levelling grease" Grease packed differentials nogal I will happily fill Bongols steering box with any of the above greases
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Post by marius on Jul 29, 2011 20:57:16 GMT 2
Thanks Spikes - interesting post. Wonder if this "Molly Grease is available locally?
I tell you what I checked the oil level in my TC the other morning when it was freezing cold and the 85/140 oil was almost like grease!
Marius
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Post by Charles on Jul 29, 2011 21:12:56 GMT 2
I know of race cars that runs MS grease in their diffs.
Charles
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Post by keithbatkins on Jul 29, 2011 23:35:20 GMT 2
Good Evening. I am not a grease expert I have been looking at the Castrol websites (UK and SA) though and it would seem that the Castrol MS grease (SA) that I have 'shoved' into Celato's steering box has much the same type of stuff in it as does the Moly grease (UK). That's Lithium and Moly something or other Given that the oil comes out of the box faster than I can put it in, I am going to stick with (no pun intended) the MS grease and the next time I have to visit relatives in the UK I shall bring back a few tubs of the Moly......or perhaps a 25 litre drum or two Regards to all, Keith.
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Post by spikes on Jul 30, 2011 7:12:25 GMT 2
Hi Keith The MS grease seens the same to me. I will search wider today re the E/L90 grease. Also have a look for Penrite 00/000 grease. Thanks for the info on the box temp.
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Post by ronnie on Jul 30, 2011 9:30:08 GMT 2
Hi Marius Sorry I did not notice your question on the bearings. The bearings were fine it was the cage which had broken. The cage is made of plastic and I have the feeling it may have been damaged in the past when the box was opened,as I can see no reason for it to break in use unless the box had no oil. The bearings themselves looked ok. The bearing is only available from the agents and they should have it, as it must be identical to the LHD box. To replace it you would need to remove the pitman arm. To overcome the problem Vincent suggested removing the broken cage and adding extra balls to fill the space. The box now has new balls installed including 1 extra. As far as grease goes, everyone is pulling up information to justify it`s use, yet you have an oil and bearing expert on the Forum who states otherwise. You are the only one who has noted where the oil is leaking from, no one else has. We would have an idea what the problems were if we could be advised where the common leaks were from. I still can`t understand why when a steering box leaks members do not fix it as they would do with other parts. I meant to check your post from when you had oil in as I think you said the level dropped to 2 cms. If this was the case your box was fine as 1 to 2 cms is the correct level if you want to use a "dip stick". Simply check my photo`s for the level required inside the box. Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 30, 2011 9:38:28 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
They are not talking about car or any vehicle`s diffs. They use grease on items like ride on lawn more`s diffs which are sealed for life. I had 2 ride on lawn mores and 1 diff had to be replaced due to wear. The bronze bushes were completely worn out, the same bush that the pitman arm runs in.
Ronnie
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Post by spikes on Jul 30, 2011 9:45:14 GMT 2
Hi all Finally took the filler plug out of the steering box on Bongol. It is filled to the level of the breather with... good old EP90 oil. But there are no leaks!! Somebody did a good job on the box. I am therefore leaving all as is in this department. Now to go and watch tri-nations Cherers Spikes
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Post by ronnie on Jul 30, 2011 9:56:15 GMT 2
Hi Spikes Glad your box is full like mine. . I was thinking, for people who for whatever reason are determined to fill the box with grease, why not source a grease nipple to fit the filler hole and then slowly fill with a grease gun until the grease oozes out the breather. at this point you could remove the bottom bolt nearest the engine from the shimmed plate and check the grease is all the way to the bottom. This way it will be easy to check the grease and also be able to pump new grease in when required. Ronnie
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Post by danie on Jul 30, 2011 11:37:50 GMT 2
Hi Spikes I was thinking, for people who for whatever reason are determined to fill the box with grease, why not source a grease nipple to fit the filler hole and then slowly fill with a grease gun until the grease oozes out the breather. at this point you could remove the bottom bolt nearest the engine from the shimmed plate and check the grease is all the way to the bottom. This way it will be easy to check the grease and also be able to pump new grease in when required. Ronnie Ronnie, you are a genius ! That certainly is something to have a serious look at. Grease nipples are dirt cheap anyway. Danie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 30, 2011 12:33:07 GMT 2
Hi Danie
I thought as I had said so much about not using oil I should at least say something to help the ones that are going to use it. I think even the filler plug could be drilled for a m6 nipple if care was taken.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jul 30, 2011 13:26:46 GMT 2
Spikes>> I am glad your box is not leaking. Mine was also not leaking - except when I took it for a drive. Just check how things are going when you took it for a drive. Hope the Boks did not spoil your day tto much ;D
Ronnie>> The broken casing for the bearings is a bit worriesome - but it is good to know it can be fixed that way. We have been through the dipstick thing already - I suspect I can get the dipstick in much deeper than you can (about 7+cm).
It is also quite clear now that there are a number of greases specifically manufactured for steering boxes and at the moment I am quite happy with the performance of the mixture in my box - esp with our current temp readings.
Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jul 30, 2011 13:58:34 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I have just removed the filler plug AGAIN and here are the measurements. "dipstick inserted more or less straight 7cms. Depth of oil showing 2 cms. This tells me your box would be perfect with oil in as you said (I checked your old post) "the most you could keep in was 2 cms". This is correct.
Ronnie
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Post by spikes on Jul 30, 2011 14:45:17 GMT 2
Spikes>> I am glad your box is not leaking. Mine was also not leaking - except when I took it for a drive. Just check how things are going when you took it for a drive. Hope the Boks did not spoil your day tto much ;D Ronnie>> The broken casing for the bearings is a bit worriesome - but it is good to know it can be fixed that way. We have been through the dipstick thing already - I suspect I can get the dipstick in much deeper than you can (about 7+cm). It is also quite clear now that there are a number of greases specifically manufactured for steering boxes and at the moment I am quite happy with the performance of the mixture in my box - esp with our current temp readings. Marius Hi Marius, I did not do anything more to the box than dip for oil. When I struck it rich, I closed it up. It has been dry on the outside for 10000 km(which was my worry..was there actually anything lubricating). I also got the "dipstick" in for about 6cm and showed 3cm oil. Regards all Spikes
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Post by marius on Jul 30, 2011 17:19:15 GMT 2
It would seem that Spikes has at least 2cm more oil in his box than what Ronnie has. Spikes if the oil stays in the box - I would be very happy with that amount of oil.
Marius
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