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Post by marius on Jul 18, 2011 8:09:48 GMT 2
Hi Nikki/Spikes
If you can't find a dosing syringe a normal mid size should do fine. Just fill the grease from the top. I also grease my water pump with a normal syringe on a regular basis.
Marius
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jul 18, 2011 9:36:40 GMT 2
Hi Nikki An icing sugar syringe will work just as well as the dosing syringe regards Spikes
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Post by marius on Jul 18, 2011 9:39:28 GMT 2
Hi all Just to get clarity with regard to what lubricant to use in the steering box. Normal GL-5 gear oil is the recommended lube to use and the spec prescribed by Avtovaz. The spec is any gear oil from 75-85W90. However if you have a leaking steering box - in other words you can not fill the box to capacity (0.18 liters) without causing an oil spill, you can replace/supplement the oil with a suitable grease. Regards Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jul 18, 2011 9:45:22 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
I filled mine when I had it out recently, with a powerade bottle with a tight fitting hose shoved into the cap. One small hole in the base for my finger to let the air in ocasionally. The oil in place of the grease has made a difference to the steering.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 18, 2011 10:43:35 GMT 2
Hi Marius
One thing members should be aware of ,if you fill the steering box to the bottom of the filler threads ,oil will leak out of the adjusting nut situated under the filler until the level drops below this point. I did post my reasons for saying this but there was no comments from other members. When the Russians produced the right hand drive boxes they appear to have used the LHD cover and simply reversed the cover, which now means the filler is above the adjusting screw and not below, as shown in the manual.
Ronnie
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on Jul 18, 2011 22:30:22 GMT 2
Thank you so much for your assistance guys – you’re all so incredibly helpful and I really do appreciate it. Spikes - if I don’t come right with the dosing syringe I’ll also check out the icing syringes which usually come with a selection of nozzles and should work well as you say. Marius – the only reason I’m keen on the ‘dosing syringe’ is because Spikes refers to it having an outlet of about 5-7mm which should make it easier to push the grease. ;D Although the syringe I ended up with was unsuitable I did have a ‘trial run’ with it but I really battled to squeeze the grease through the tiny nozzle despite having left it in the sun for some time. Keith – thank you for your kind offer - if I don’t come right I’ll definitely take you up on it! ;D Ronnie – I really do listen to what you guys have to say and although I would have preferred to use oil as opposed to grease as most of mine seems to have leaked out, not just the surplus, I thought that something would be better than nothing. ;D ;D NIKKI
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Post by ronnie on Jul 19, 2011 17:42:23 GMT 2
Hi Marius
You mentioned that you could only measure 2 cm of oil in your steering box after the oil had leaked out of the slot on the adjusting bolt. You should have left the oil in as that is the exact level the oil should be at, in the steering box. Vincent has checked his and his is exactly the same. I went even further and removed the top of the steering box to visually check the level and even with only 2 cm showing on the "dipstick" oil still poured out until it reached the rim at the front of the box. The amount which landed on the concrete actually looked like a lot even though it was a small amount. You can safely fill with oil and as soon as it finds it level at the adjuster you will have no leaks.
Ronnie
PS The only place where the oil can leak is the seal on the pitman arm shaft or like mine through the shims on the small square plate, which was easy to fix. The seal on the pitman arm shaft is more difficult to fix.
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Post by vincentc on Jul 19, 2011 17:59:29 GMT 2
You can happily put 85W-140 in the steering box too.
The RHD steering box sees more heat than the LHD steering box as a result of the exhaust manifold.
RTV sealer sorts out the leaks through the shim plates.
Regards Vincent
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Post by Nikki Lada on Jul 20, 2011 22:41:50 GMT 2
I finally found a suitable syringe from the vet Spike mentioned which I think is the same type that Keith used. They didn't have the large dosing type but this one will be fine. Thanks again for all the help. NIKKI
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Post by marius on Jul 21, 2011 8:05:24 GMT 2
Nikki the dosing syringe will do the job perfectly. The diff oil (85/140) Vincent mentioned would also be perfect - and if you have a perfectly sealed box I suspect normal engine oil would also be just fine ;D Ronnie the box tapers down and although 180ml is not a lot of oil I would be surprised if the 2cm level would cover all of the prescribed 180ml? With a 2 cm oil level many of the more vital components near the top of the box would only be able to smell the oil. Perhaps one should drain the oil and see how much oil there actually is in the box? The reversed cover was already mentioned on the 21st of June in an earlier post in this thread. ;D I am still very comfortable with the grease/oil mix in my box - even if the 2cm level is enough - as most of the components should now be well covered by some form of lube. Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jul 21, 2011 8:53:31 GMT 2
Hi Marius
With the 2 cm of oil on the dipstick all the components were covered in oil. I think the fact that the box is mounted at an angle makes you think the oil level is low and in fact it is not. I think Vincent mentioned to me that engine oil is not suitable due to the load on the worm and peg. No doubt he will comment with his usual technical reasons ;D
Ronnie
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Post by Ventzel on Jul 21, 2011 9:03:59 GMT 2
The reversed cover is still inheritance from the LHS casing. If you fill oil to the top, you will loose later a little bit through the breather which not appeared in LHS boxes.
V.
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Post by spikes on Jul 21, 2011 9:33:27 GMT 2
Hi Ventz Was the breather required due to the close proximity to the exhaust manifold, or why is it only on the RHS box? Regards Spikes
PS you should have been two weeks ago when we had widespread rains. THAT was freezing cold weather s
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Post by marius on Jul 21, 2011 9:40:37 GMT 2
Hi Marius With the 2 cm of oil on the dipstick all the components were covered in oil. I think the fact that the box is mounted at an angle makes you think the oil level is low and in fact it is not. I think Vincent mentioned to me that engine oil is not suitable due to the load on the worm and peg. No doubt he will comment with his usual technical reasons ;D Ronnie Ronnie I was told by the guys who worked on my box that I would not be able to fill the box to the required level due to their handy work. They also told me that the box would leak at first but that it would level out at some point (less than the required level). Perhaps you did not measure the level at the lowest point in the box - but the 2cm level I am talking about certainly does not cover all the components in the box? Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jul 21, 2011 10:41:44 GMT 2
Hi Marius
The "dip stick" was inserted as far as it was possible. 2 cm of oil covers all the parts. I am sure Vincent will post on this as well. Once the oil has leaked out to the level of the adjusting nut / breather the level will be correct and no more oil will leak from this point. In my opinion no matter what any one changes inside this box and there is little that I can see that can be changed no more oil can come out when nothing is pressurized. Have a look at the drawing of the inside of the box, perhaps you can see something I have missed. Sometime when you have nothing to do (farmers normally have plenty of time like this ;D ) you can remove the grease and see what happens. You are the only one who can look at this one as I have already done it.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jul 21, 2011 13:24:30 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie and all
I've used a plastic tie down as a dipstick and pushed it as far down as possible and took great care not to bend it. The dipstick showed exactly 5cm's of grease/oil mix - more than twice the amount of oil that is in Ronnie's steering box.
A small amount of grease is visible near the breather but it is not leaking.
I would say 5cm of my sloppy mix would do better than 2cm of the best quality gear oil in a non pressurized environment? ;D
Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jul 21, 2011 13:26:44 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
The cover on the right and left hand drive boxes are the same. The left hand drive cover has been turned upside down on ours. That is why you have oil leaking out until the level drops below the adjuster bolt.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 21, 2011 13:43:33 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I think only Vincent is qualified to comment on the oils and grease. Remember, every moving component is covered in oil if you have 2 cm on the dipstick. If the Russians had made a cover the reverse of the LHD one you would not have had oil leaking after filling.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jul 21, 2011 14:05:16 GMT 2
Ronnie in my opinion there is no way that 2cm of oil can cover all the components in the box. The dipstick indicated at least another 3cm of oil above your level - that would include most of the major components in the box. These components will not be in direct contact with the oil in your box.
I would be surprised if the 2cm level is anywhere near the 180ml mark.
I think you also forget - I am not arguing against gear oil in the box at all - but that grease would be a good alternative to oil if the box is leaking.
Marius
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Post by spikes on Jul 21, 2011 14:10:22 GMT 2
Hi Spikes The cover on the right and left hand drive boxes are the same. The left hand drive cover has been turned upside down on ours. That is why you have oil leaking out until the level drops below the adjuster bolt. Ronnie The steering box on Bongol is as dry as brand new steri nappi. There are no leaks. But Ventz particularly stated that only the RHS boxes have the breather in the adjuster Spikes
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Post by ronnie on Jul 21, 2011 14:16:44 GMT 2
Hi Marius
If you fill with oil and then remove the top of the steering box the only part left with no oil is the adjusting bolt on the top of the pitman arm. When the cover is in place and the oil has stopped leaking out of the adjusting bolt all is covered, and you will only show 2 cms. As far as grease goes I would (did) fill with grease as it is a long job to remove the box. I only removed the box much later to fix the leak through the shims.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 21, 2011 14:25:41 GMT 2
Hi Marius
When Vincent came up to look at the steering box and have coffee ;D I related a story to him as I agree when you look at the box it is difficult to believe the parts inside are covered with oil. I think this is due to the box being at an angle. The story----- In Scotland near where I lived we have a road cut into the side of a hill overlooking the sea, which runs up from the bottom to the top, or so it would appear, however if you stop when you are going up and release the brakes you will freewheel up the way. It is an optical illusion and no matter where you look from even the beach, you will swear blind the road is running up the hill. The hill is called the Electric Brae. Things are not always as they seem. Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jul 21, 2011 15:16:24 GMT 2
;D
I think we are measuring at different places. The level of lubricant in my box is at the same level as yours - just under the adjuster.
The box is about 7cm deep - the cover gives you perhaps another cm see if you can get the in dipstick close to that mark.
Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jul 21, 2011 17:27:52 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I have dipped it Vincent has dipped it and we both get the same. Forget about the measurement, if the oil is at the level of the "breather" all the components are in oil.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 21, 2011 17:40:13 GMT 2
Hi Ventz
I assume the breather is the keyway that the lock washer under the locknut engages with. if so how does the lockwasher lock to the adjusting bolt in LHD ?
Ronnie
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Post by Ventzel on Jul 21, 2011 19:12:59 GMT 2
Hi Spikes,
Every machinery working in close case needs a breather - engine, gearbox, transfer box, diffs, steering box, motor-reducers, transformers, ......
Ronnie is right that the Russians saved their efforts to modify the cover and put the same one upside-down. That's why the breather leaks - it is below the oil screw. In our steering boxes the adjusting bolt is a breather as well.
I can't say to put grease inside is sensible idea. The oil mixed with the grease will leak out and inside will remain only the soap. Especially when the temperature is so high - it is very close to the exhaust. Most of the steering boxes leak, not only in NIVA. Just check it every service and top-up the oil - to the top. Takes 1 minute. It will run out a little bit through the breather 1-2 days and will stop. I do it in my job and never find steering box fully empty. You don't need dipstick either, keep the maximum level. You don't need syringe, I use the ready 500 ml oil bottle with inner pipe you can find it in every spare parts shop.
I use 85W/140, same as into the diffs but is possible to use thicker. Probably Vincent will recommend something. Even to use the thickest oil on the market is better than grease.
Rgds
Ventz
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Post by spikes on Jul 21, 2011 19:18:43 GMT 2
Hi Ventz, When I re-read your e-mail, I saw that I understood it incorrectly. All is now clear, thanks. Regards Spikes
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Post by ronnie on Jul 21, 2011 19:33:03 GMT 2
Hi Spikes I also misread Ventz`s post. That was why I asked about the lock washer on LHD. Like you I am lucky as now that the oil is below the adjuster there appears to be no leaks. Even the shims do not leak. Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jul 21, 2011 19:34:11 GMT 2
Hi Ventz
I don't quite understand what you mean by "The oil mixed with the grease will leak out and inside will remain only the soap"? The mixture of oil/grease is still the same as the stuff I've put into the box - nothing has changed.
Again - I am not arguing against the use of oil but with the mixture I have in the box right now I can keep nearly double the amount of lube in the box than before without spilling through the breather.
This is apparently at the same level as the oil that is currently in Ronnie's box - this is much less than what I was able to keep in the box.
Marius
PS - The syringe is to get grease into the box - not oil.
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Post by spikes on Jul 21, 2011 19:38:21 GMT 2
Hi Spikes I also misread Ventz`s post. That was why I asked about the lock washer on LHD. Like you I am lucky as now that the oil is below the adjuster there appears to be no leaks. Even the shims do not leak. Ronnie Age is catching up on us Ronnie or maybe is the cold spells
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