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Post by ronnie on Jun 2, 2011 19:34:10 GMT 2
Hi Vincent
It is a pleasure to help. Make sure when you are ready to put it back together that every thing is CLEAN. I had to wash my hair 3 times tonight ;D
Ronnie
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Jun 3, 2011 20:01:23 GMT 2
Lol . You are going to love how clean I got the gerar box after you left. It just about sparkles. As for washing your hair, be thankful you still have some ;D
Thanks once again for your help thus far
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Post by vincentc on Jun 5, 2011 20:16:31 GMT 2
The news today is not the best. The clutch is changed. The gear box is in and aligned and the Lada is running. The noise. Is still evident when in 5th gear. I am note sure what the cause can be but am guessing it is to do with bearings or bushes.
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Post by marius on Jun 5, 2011 20:30:42 GMT 2
Vincent my guess would be that it is neither - you will hear the bearings no matter what gear it's in.
What type of sound do you hear? You can always remove the gear leaver (outer 3 nuts ONLY!) and see if you can see any wear/chips on the 5th gear components.
I would try to overfill a bit to about 1.5 and see if it helps with the noise. If that doesn't help it may well be the syncro.
Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jun 5, 2011 20:36:33 GMT 2
Hi Marius
The gears in Vincents gearbox are in perfect condition. I have never been inside a Niva box but every thing that can be seen looks good. The noise is intermittent and sounds like the gears hitting something. I don`t think Vincent will go for an overfill.
Ronnie
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Post by vincentc on Jun 6, 2011 17:45:05 GMT 2
Ronnie is correct.
With the right lubricant in overfilling is something that I am against. Gears and synchro's llok good. I will avoid 5th till I can pull the inspection plate and 5th gear housing off.
Rusti is back at the salt mines and has loads of work to do ;-)
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Post by vincentc on Jun 6, 2011 17:47:16 GMT 2
One other point to note, I filled with a standard EP 90 oil as a flush oil (I stupidly drained my flippin expensive oil into a dirty container) and with the gear lever out started the engine to see if everything works ok.
Ronnie got soaked and the Rusti now has a coating of eau de EP 90
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Post by ronnie on Jun 6, 2011 18:14:24 GMT 2
Hi Al.
I do not know why you would want to overfill to lubricate the 5th gear. when Vincent started his Niva with the gear lever out it was like Victoria Falls, oil every where immediately.
Ronnie
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Post by vincentc on Jun 6, 2011 18:43:54 GMT 2
How many washes did it take to get the oil out Ronnie?
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Post by Charles on Jun 6, 2011 19:10:33 GMT 2
Vincent like I think it is a damaged gear.
Charles
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Post by vincentc on Jun 6, 2011 20:30:55 GMT 2
Hi Charles
inspecting the gears from the gear lever hole all looked really good.
The noise is intermittent - I first thought it was dirt passing through the gears, but it was more a knock rather than a sharp impact.
I will remove the inspection plates later when I get a chance to check all the gears out. This current oil charge is only a flushing charge.
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Post by marius on Jun 6, 2011 20:49:18 GMT 2
Hi Vincent
If it's a knocking sound chances are very good that at least one of the gears on the 5th gear components have a slight chip or a defect. If the sound is not too loud I would engage 5th gear in neutral and let it idle for a good couple of minutes with the 5th gear rolling. There is a good chance that the noise might disappear after a while IF it is a small chip.
On the subject of overfilling - personally I am also not a fan. In fact I suggested to Ronnie when he had trouble with his oil seal - not to overfill - as it may well have been the cause of the busted oil seal.
However overfilling to 1.5 is not huge as the gearbox is marked for 1.35 liters of oil.
Marius
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Post by vincentc on Jun 6, 2011 21:49:43 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I may do that after I have pulled the bottom inspection plate off to visually inspect the other gears. I do too many km's to have the Lada break down on the side of the road and have a Landy tow me home :-( I would rather have to push the Lada or phone a friend ;-)
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Post by ronnie on Jun 7, 2011 9:09:46 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I don`t think it is a chipped gear as there is no rhythm to the noise, it is random. I think the only way to sort this one is to remove the box and strip it. Maybe with luck Vincent will be able to see something by removing the bottom plate
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jun 7, 2011 9:24:23 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie That is a strange one then were you able to see if the spring on the 5th gear is still intact? A broken spring might just be the source of a more random noise? I hope you guys gets it sorted soon. Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jun 7, 2011 9:31:04 GMT 2
Hi Marius
The spring was the way it should be. The sound to me sounded like the oil was picking something up and it was hitting the gears. I have only once had a chipped gear and it did not sound the same.
Ronnie
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Post by hotstuff on Jun 7, 2011 11:20:53 GMT 2
remove oil from gearbox after driving it a bit, check plug for iron filings larger than normal. Remove plate slowly and check plate for any small metal parts, it will either be bearing parts or small gear pieces..Unless at your last oil change you might have missed the broken parts. If you still have the old oil check it for parts.
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Post by marius on Jun 7, 2011 17:27:34 GMT 2
That stuff normally ends up on the magnet if it is small. If its a chunk of something it should be fairly large if it is causing the noise.
Better to open sooner than later.
Marius
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Post by vincentc on Jun 7, 2011 20:20:26 GMT 2
I did 200 km today while avoiding 5th gear like soviet dissidents avoided the KGB ;-) I will pull everything open when the super duper oil arrives later this week.
Thanks for the advise Mike and Marius.
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Post by vincentc on Jun 7, 2011 22:46:14 GMT 2
The Rusti at the salt mines - Earning a living. (Well they are technically rock mines - but I wont say anything :-) ) Attachments:
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Post by Charles on Jun 7, 2011 23:29:45 GMT 2
Nice pic!
Charles
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Post by vincentc on Jun 8, 2011 8:59:44 GMT 2
Thanks Charles.
It is of Rusti's good side :-)
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Post by jaco1978 on Jun 8, 2011 10:14:58 GMT 2
Vincent, I take that the toolbox was opened for the CAT. ;D
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Post by vincentc on Jun 8, 2011 18:47:09 GMT 2
Vincent, I take that the toolbox was opened for the CAT. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D YES !!!! This is only a 30 ton ADT. I hope to get the Lada next to a 793C Cat - The engine is bigger than a Lada Niva
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Post by spikes on Jun 8, 2011 19:11:35 GMT 2
Nice one Vincent
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Post by vincentc on Jun 12, 2011 19:43:32 GMT 2
So the noise in the gear box was identified. It turns out that it a washer or spacer of sorts that has been thoroughly minced and mangled in the gear box.
All the gears still look in excellent condition with no evidence of damage to the faces. The bearings still sound good, but I would prefer them to have less clearance. All the synchro rings are in their place and their springs are still where they should be.
I washed the gear box out thoroughly with Ronnies paraffin gun - Ronnie my box sparkles now. and blew the inside clear of any remaining paraffin. The inspection cover was replaced and the gear box filled with an ISO 220 (SAE 110) gear oil.
With the milage I do and the fact that much of my running is long highway driving I opted to go up 1 viscosity grade. The oil now in service is my insurance against gear damage.
I will in the future get a set of bearings and seals to allow me to rebuild the box.
I took the family for a Pizza and so have done 50km already since the oil change.
The RHS brights bulb is blown and will need to replace that in the morning. I traded a carb for gear lever boots from Charles, but till I go collect them from Ari I decided to raid the wife's sewing box for batting. It works well as a sound deading material. I also do not have a furnace blowing into the Cab - My Lada almost feels comfortable ;D
I am probably going to about 500km this week and so will know whether there are any other Lada issues to resolve.
Cheers and have fun out there
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Post by spikes on Jun 12, 2011 19:47:25 GMT 2
Great! Glad there was no damage!
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Post by vincentc on Jun 12, 2011 19:55:45 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
Turning each gear set and seeing no damage was like winning a 4+bonus Lotto draw. Just make sure that you run an API GL-5 and you should never wear gears.
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Post by Charles on Jun 12, 2011 22:34:32 GMT 2
How on earth does one service a 793C? That thing is as big as a house? What is the fluid capacities of that thing? Charles
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Post by vincentc on Jun 13, 2011 20:10:22 GMT 2
Hi Charles
I only service the Lubrication System on them.
Just a frightening set of statistics for you on the CAT 994 Front End Loader. This is the Largest CONVENTIONAL drive loader on the market. Most other loaders (Le Tourneau etc) use a diesel motor to power an altenator that in turn powers the electric motors in the wheels.
The CAT has an engine which drives a transmission which drives prop shafts which drive diffs (4x4) which drive reduction hubs which turn the wheels with a diameter of 4m.
Some tech info on the Komatsu WA 1200. A similar sized machine:- Cooling system - 500 liters Diesel fuel tank - 5100 liters Engine oil in sump - 260 liters Hydraulic system - 1200 liters Differential, final drive - 670 liters Torque converter and transmission - 350 liters Brake oil - 45 liters Brake cooling system - 270 liters
The Engine is a 16 Cylinder Cummins QSK60 60.2 Liter capacity Turbo Charged engine. This engine generates 1147kw at 1900 RPM
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