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Post by ronnie on May 8, 2011 10:17:35 GMT 2
Hi Marius and All IT is tossing it down here today and we are going out for lunch so my working time is curtailed. I have of course done compression tests, the results as follows. 900, 1000, 1000, 1000. . I have again checked the timing marks and all looks correct though the bottom marking pin is very wide making it difficult to be sure it is not one tooth out. If it was one out would the valves still be clear or would they contact the pistons. Also from what I can see through the plug hole no 1 piston is at TDC. I would also have thought if it was 1 tooth out it would have started and run after a fashion. Ronnie
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Post by Charles on May 8, 2011 10:21:17 GMT 2
Hi danie
At work we also replace all relavent parts when doing a chain. Rather be safe than sorry.
Charles
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on May 8, 2011 10:25:21 GMT 2
I think if one tooth out the mark would not line up at all. If your motor was rebuilt they would be close to lining up but not exactly due to head and block skimming.
Ari
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Post by marius on May 8, 2011 10:32:25 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie Smiles all round regarding the compression As far as the timing marks and the piston goes - things should pretty much look like the attached illustration otherwise you have a problem. This is about as far as I can help - so hopefully someone with more technical savvy than me can give you a better answer. If I read the drawing correctly - the mark should be quite some way off if it has jumped one teeth. Quite frankly I can see no reason why it should not start - I think that problem is elsewhere. That lunch break is a great idea and it will do you the world of good - enjoy! Marius
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Post by Charles on May 8, 2011 10:33:53 GMT 2
To prevent problems like this I always mark chains or belts with tipex before removal. I have learnt the hard wat a couple of times.
Charles
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Post by marius on May 8, 2011 10:39:58 GMT 2
Don't we all Charles! ;D
Ronnie - this is just a hunch - is there any forward/backward movement on the crankshaft pully and or sprocket?
Marius
PS - it is actually not even a hunch - it is a shot in the dark and hopefully it will remain dark ;D
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Post by Charles on May 8, 2011 10:44:19 GMT 2
Also have you tried pouring a bit of petrol into the carb? Or maybe its flooded. Also is everything connected. I know it sounds stupid but when I had my tensioner out it didn't want to start afterwards. Then I realised my coil ht lead was not all the way on.
Charles
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Post by marius on May 8, 2011 10:52:55 GMT 2
Well Charles I am glad you posted it ;D
I thought about it but then I thought...nahh!
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Post by ronnie on May 8, 2011 14:07:39 GMT 2
Hi All Thanks for all the suggestions, but it dawned on me just before we went for lunch what the problem was. I had the chain off and the pulley which drives the oil pump also drives the DISTRIBUTOR. Cap off and the rotor is no where near no1 lead. I am now back from lunch and am contemplating wither to go outside and work or not. It is dull, cold, and looks like rain. I also feel like a snooze . At least I can assemble it all again as the distributor will be easy to reposition when I start. Thanks again for all the support. Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on May 8, 2011 14:11:35 GMT 2
Hi Charles
The Lada is the only vehicle I have had for a long time with a chain. The jaguar also had a duplex chain and they lasted the life of the motor and even then they were still serviceable. they also had manual adjustment.
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on May 8, 2011 14:14:13 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
I would suggest you do it tomorrow. Nothing is worse than being cold when working on a car.
Charles
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Post by ronnie on May 8, 2011 17:52:23 GMT 2
Hi Charles
By the time I saw your post it was too late, I had already started, as I could not stand the suspense of waiting till tomorrow. It is now running like a sewing machine again. the non starting was simply the timing being way out, as the gear for the oil pump and distributor obviously moved and I never even thought about it. In future if I need to remove the timing gear I will remove the distributor first.
Ronnie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on May 8, 2011 18:36:29 GMT 2
Great news Ronnie!! The suspense was getting to all of us on the forum. As for a chain stretching...highly unlikely on a duplex chain Regards spikes
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Hein
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Post by Hein on May 8, 2011 18:56:39 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
What degree is your timing now set to? Also what spark plugs and gap size do you have? Asking since I have had some timing problems since I set the points on my Lada 2 weeks ago. That is one of the reasons why I am now in a rush to get the electronic ignition on my engine. Just waiting for a hall sensor and rotor that I ordered.
Just want to make sure that there is not more parts that I need to get.
Thanks
Hein
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Ventzel
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Post by Ventzel on May 8, 2011 20:16:41 GMT 2
The timing chains get stretched, no doubt. What is the mileage done with this chain Ronnie?
Ventz
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Post by ronnie on May 8, 2011 20:20:22 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
The suspense was getting to me as well. The only concern I have is why only 2 mm of pin sticks out when every thing looks new. I also think the problem was caused by the cap not being tight enough. I remember a post which recommended not to over tighten the cap. Be aware the cap is VERY tight now and I will check it occasionally.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on May 8, 2011 20:45:57 GMT 2
Hi Hein
The plugs are BP6ES. I have mine set at 5deg BTDC. Plug gap is .5 to .6 mm. Points and condenser when new and set corectly are as good as electronic. Set them with a dwell meter if you have one.
Ronnie
PS THE ABOVE PLUG GAP IS INCORRECT AND SHOULD BE .7 to .8mm
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Post by Charles on May 8, 2011 21:03:02 GMT 2
Ronnie isnt that point gap a bit too small. Have you tried 0.8mm. All cars that use BP5ES we set to 0.8mm.
Charles
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Hein
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Post by Hein on May 8, 2011 22:26:54 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
I see the repair manual say 0.7 to 0.8. I also seen somewhere that the 1.6 with points needs to be 0.5 to 0.6
Points needs more attention and can affect fuel consumption without notice. So I thing the electronic upgrade is a plus.
Hein
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Post by Charles on May 8, 2011 22:40:58 GMT 2
Hein and best is once you set it you can forget about it. Just gives you a bit more piece of mind.
Charles
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Post by danie on May 9, 2011 6:35:07 GMT 2
Hi Ventz / Darryn
Ventz, in your experience - what is the average lifespan of a Lada Timing Chain ?
Darryn, what is the km reading on your Lada ? As far as I remember the timing chain which failed on your Lada has been an aftermarket one.
According to some comments at the previous page Timing Chains should last very long - so I assume the km reading on your Lada is very high - which means the original Timing Chain has been replaced at some stage with an aftermarket one ??
Regards
Danie
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Post by marius on May 9, 2011 8:12:54 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
One would think a chain like that would not be able to stretch - but in the manual there is a simple test to see whether the chain has been stretched or not. I believe if you check the tension on a regular basis - you should reduce the risk of that happening by a significant margin.
I would also like to think that the chain can last the lifetime of the car if you do the prescribed checks. I can't see any reason why not but I am sure Ventz can give a more educated answer to that question.
Marius
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Post by ronnie on May 9, 2011 9:12:57 GMT 2
Hi Hein
You are correct, electronic is set and forget. When I typed in the gap I thought it looked strange but was too lazy to check. .7 to .8 is correct. Sorry for being lazy.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on May 9, 2011 9:21:00 GMT 2
Hi Charles
Sorry, you are correct.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on May 9, 2011 9:26:29 GMT 2
Hi All
I have put a correction note on my original incorrect post of the plug gap.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on May 9, 2011 9:57:11 GMT 2
It makes me feel so much better about myself when I see other members can also make mistakes - just like me! ;D I guess that makes us all...HUMAN Marius
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Ventzel
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Post by Ventzel on May 9, 2011 20:25:27 GMT 2
When the timing chain get stretched - depends too much of the proper adjustment and regular service. Perhaps started to get tired ~160000 km. I checked the file of a lady owner who always serviced the car at my place since new at the exact service intervals and found timing chain replaced at 220000 km.
V.
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Ventzel
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Post by Ventzel on May 9, 2011 20:27:55 GMT 2
Don't mix the spark plugs:
BP6ES - for carburettor Niva BP5ES - for injection Niva
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Post by Charles on May 9, 2011 21:36:02 GMT 2
Thanks Ventz.
Charles
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Post by danie on May 10, 2011 6:02:02 GMT 2
Thanks Ventz.
Oil condition and regular oil changes also do have an influence on the lifespan of a Timing Chain.
Danie
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