butasteve
Senior Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 366
Location: Western Cape
Town: Paarl
Registered: Jan 22, 2011 12:02:42 GMT 2
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Post by butasteve on May 3, 2011 14:34:08 GMT 2
Dear All Good day
I need to get a New DIY Timing Light. Any advice on a Brand / Model would be appreciated. Long time ago used a Midas Aquus Timing light.
Regards Stephen
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Post by Charles on May 3, 2011 16:16:15 GMT 2
We use a Aquus timing light at wok. The one with dwell angle. Cant complain about it.
Charles
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Post by ronnie on May 3, 2011 17:39:07 GMT 2
Hi Steven
The only advice I can give you here is buy the best you can afford.
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on May 3, 2011 19:58:39 GMT 2
Ronnie that is the best advice.
Charles
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Post by ronnie on May 6, 2011 19:25:15 GMT 2
Hi All I mentioned on another thread that I had problems with a noisy timing chain today.I have stripped it and here is what I found. I removed the valve cover first and with a screwdriver there was a lot of slack present. The tensioner looks fine and appears to function properly. The tensioner shoe looks good to me and in the first photo you will notice where the chain was rubbing against the pivot end. The second is a side view,which looks like a 1700 one. The next is of the damper which also looks OK. The only thing I have not checked is the chain . It is still hanging in place and it is now dark so it will need to wait till tomorrow. When the chain is adjusted, only 2 mm of pin shows. From the above does any one have any suggestions why the slack today. Perhaps the nut for the collets was not tight enough? Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on May 6, 2011 19:26:01 GMT 2
Hi All Next one Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on May 6, 2011 19:26:49 GMT 2
Hi All Next one Ronnie
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spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
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Post by spikes on May 6, 2011 19:34:56 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie Glad you caught it in time! All I can think of is that collets did not grip the plunger pin and it moved out slightly? Regards Spikes
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Post by marius on May 6, 2011 19:52:40 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
It is a mystery to me but what Spikes is saying makes sense to me. From the pics everything looks to be in very good shape.
I presume when you loosened the cap on the tensioner just now it was on tight?
Marius
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Post by ronnie on May 6, 2011 21:01:35 GMT 2
Hi Spikes and Marius
The nut was tight, but the only thing I can see that makes any sense is that it was not tight enough for the collets to grip the pin. The only other thing is I seem to remember the length of 5 mm of pin sticking out when new. If this is so and every thing looks new why do I only have 2mm?. All I can do is reassemble and take care.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on May 6, 2011 21:16:09 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
This is very unusual. Were you able to see on the timing marks if the chain jumped any teeth?
Only other thing I can think of is that the chain actually stretched - but that would also be very unlikely.
Marius
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Post by ronnie on May 6, 2011 21:33:29 GMT 2
Hi Marius The chain had not jumped any teeth, but I am sure it would have if I did not hear it. I have been looking at the parts cat. Have a look at page A140. there is 2 tensioner shoes listed 19 and 20. 19 has (01) which if I read the info at the beginning is model specific. The difference in the 2 shoes is the pivot at the bottom is reversed, and 19 would I think increase the distance the pin sticks out when new. The shoe in mine is as per 20. Study this and tell me which shoe is correct. Mike may also know which is correct.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on May 6, 2011 21:51:36 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I will examine the chain tomorrow. They do stretch, but at very high mileage especially as it s a duplex chain there should be no problem.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on May 6, 2011 22:21:53 GMT 2
Hi Marius
After spending some time studying the drawing I think I am wrong and the correct tensioner shoe for our version of the Niva is as item no 20.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on May 7, 2011 7:35:05 GMT 2
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Hercules
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Lada - your peace of mind to take on the world's vast landscapes.
Posts: 785
Location: Gauteng
Town: Benoni
Registered: Oct 2, 2009 11:55:41 GMT 2
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Post by Hercules on May 7, 2011 9:05:55 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie.
The shoe you got is the correct shoe. My thought is that the collet slipped due to the higher temp you running on the engine and that the collet was not tight enough.
Regards.
Hercules
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Post by ronnie on May 7, 2011 9:12:10 GMT 2
Hi Hercules
I suspect you may be correct. Fortunatly there is no damage. The only thing I do not like is the pin only sticks out 2mm, and I can`t see any worn parts.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on May 7, 2011 9:17:10 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I have not opened the tensioner but you can easily feel the small spring push the small pin back out when you press it. I also notice there is no torque setting for the cap.
Ronnie
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Hercules
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Lada - your peace of mind to take on the world's vast landscapes.
Posts: 785
Location: Gauteng
Town: Benoni
Registered: Oct 2, 2009 11:55:41 GMT 2
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Post by Hercules on May 7, 2011 9:20:37 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie.
Just give the cap a nice nip when you finnish ajusting the tension.
Regards.
Hercules
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Post by marius on May 7, 2011 16:22:10 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie I am very happy that you picked up no damage at all - it could have easily gone the other way Just make sure it is tight but DON'T OVERCOOK IT - then I think will be fine. AND PLEASE take it slow for the next couple of 100 kilos ;D Marius
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on May 7, 2011 17:16:37 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie Is there wear where the red arrows are on the shoe??? I don't think there should be any signs of wear on the metal part of the shoe. Ari
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Post by ronnie on May 7, 2011 18:43:50 GMT 2
Hi Ari
The marks are quite light so I assume it happened when the chain lost it`s tension. I stripped it today and made sure the timing marks are lined up. Tried to start it and nothing just turned over. Tomorrow I will do a compression test before I do any thing, then I will know what is cooking.
Ronnie
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spikes
Moderator
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Post by spikes on May 7, 2011 19:33:22 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie & Ari Glad the chain did not jump teeth, but the non starting is strange. Looking at the exploded drawing, it seems to me that shoe type 20 will show more wear sooner than type 19 with a slack chain Spikes
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Post by ronnie on May 7, 2011 21:20:36 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
I find the parts manual confusing at times but after looking at it a few times I think the tensioner shoe no19 is for the 1600. I could be wrong, but that is the conclusion I have come to.
Ronnie
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spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
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Post by spikes on May 7, 2011 21:25:53 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie It would seem like it, yes as the one on the following frame is hydraulically and automatically adjusted and is totally different form the two in A140
Spikes
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on May 7, 2011 21:29:55 GMT 2
You are right Ronnie the 19 is for the 1600 and the 20 for 1700
Ari
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Post by Charles on May 7, 2011 21:34:18 GMT 2
Ronnie if you need a new shoe or thickness measurements I have one. Did not need it.
Charles
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Post by ronnie on May 7, 2011 21:53:51 GMT 2
Hi Charles
Thank you for the offer but I THINK I will not require one at present, just a bit of luck.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on May 8, 2011 8:26:18 GMT 2
Just some information which could be applicable on Lada timing chains as well:
My Ford Focus has just reached 100 000 km, and I recently took the car to a local Ford agency to replace the timing belt.
Well, I discovered that the Focus does have a Timing Chain - not a timing belt (Apparently the 2005 Focus 2l Trend AT models came out with two different engines - some engines did have Timing Belts, and other engines came with Timing Chains.
The Workshop Foreman at Barloworld Amstrong Pinetown (a Ford Agency) informed me as follows:
1. There is no need to change the Timing Chains on the Ford models at any given km reading - the Chain only needs to be changed once it becomes noysy.
2. The Ford agencies always change the Tensioner , timing chain Gears, and some or other pulley , when they do change the Timing Chain.
3. The Ford Tensioners do loose tension by time - therefore it always need to be replaced.
Thinking about the info supplied by the Ford agency, I think it makes a lot of sense rather to replace all relevant components on a Lada - once it becomes "difficult" to get rid of the noise on the Timing Belt.
Danie
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Post by marius on May 8, 2011 9:10:36 GMT 2
I just hope that Ronnie has some good news for us
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