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Post by danie on Feb 9, 2011 18:15:43 GMT 2
Hi Nikki Thanks for the info. It will also be interesting to know how long it takes to get the parts delivered in your area. On my previous order the parts arrived at my work address 18 days after I have made payment. With all this info about starters which have been mentioned here, I think I will just add starter bushes, a Bendix drive gear, and brushes to my next order.... While Paypal can still be used, I decided rather to keep the Lada engine going - instead of doing an engine transplant. Danie Danie
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Post by Charles on Feb 9, 2011 18:28:00 GMT 2
Going with a supercharger!
I am also intrested on how long it takes. There is a couple of things I would like to order. If somebody is willing to add a couple of things for me on their order it would be appreciated. I dont have a credit card so I cant open a paypal account.
Charles
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Feb 9, 2011 19:27:40 GMT 2
Hi all 1. Thanks Nikki for the clear costing on the spares you ordered. 2. Those who have not done so... please re-read(or read) Ventz's letters. He clearly states his case> He is NOT an importer of spares. I will continue to get quotes from him if an when I require spares. Obviously I will do a costing. The spares that I have bought from Ventz was reasonably priced and he replied to my enquiry which is more than what I can say for Centurion LADA. Regards all Spikes
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Post by ronnie on Feb 9, 2011 19:35:44 GMT 2
Hi Nikki and Marius
I think we would all like to buy local but when you see the difference on especially major purchases it makes sense to import your self. Chris Swales should be hanging his head in shame.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Feb 9, 2011 19:58:33 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
I think the good thing that has come from all of this is that we as consumers at least have a choice - choice is ALWAYS good.
Regards Marius
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Post by marius on Feb 9, 2011 21:40:51 GMT 2
Hi Charles I am sure you can link a normal savings account to your Paypal account - or maybe Nikki/Danie can give us some advice here? Regards Marius PS - if all else fails I am sure you can count on a friend
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Post by Charles on Feb 9, 2011 22:00:29 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I tried that but you cant. Has to be a credit card. No worries. I dont need spares now. My car was drivable before I started working on her. So when I put everything back together it should still be. Well hopefully.
Also dont have spare cash now. Still saving up for a bike aswell.
Charles
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Ventzel
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Post by Ventzel on Feb 9, 2011 22:11:54 GMT 2
Hi all,
It's not so easy to import whatever parts you want as described above, but I'm not gonna argue here. Let's wait and see. I'm long years in this business and have lot of experience. OK, get your own experience now.
What about the quotations, it's a big surprise for me. Where are we living now - in South Africa or in North Korea? If I remember well - here is free market economy, i.e. everyone has the constitutional right to trade with prices determined by him. It is another story if the prices are not acceptable. Just walk away and look elsewhere.
The free market economy is the foundation of the modern life. It is not perfect, but that is what we have now. I remember the opposite one - the planing economy - also not perfect. With huge advantages like fixed low prices, no economical crisis, no bankruptcy, secured future, affordable goods, but also with huge disadvantages - no enough stimulation to improve the quality, deficit, sometimes black market.
China now still has planing economy and look what happened there.
Anyway, my point is that everyone has the rights to quote his goods as he likes. If I have one cucumber I can ask at the market R1, R10, R100, R1000, ... R1M. The customer decides to buy or not. The customer has the power, he has the last word, he is always right. If it's expensive - don't buy. Look at the next shop, or look at the Internet, or look at your own vegetable garden, or buy carrots instead. But do not ask for revenge and do not threat the merchant, he is not breaking the law - you are breaking the law with violent words or acts. Later the free market circumstances will determine who's right, who's wrong.
What about the parts' prices of mine - some of them are lower then the prices of my colleagues, but some of them are higher, depends of many reasons. What I know with certainty - I'm not going to drop them to the level of Y2000 promotional prices and there is not even single retailer on the planet who will do that.
Rgds
Ventz
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Post by danie on Feb 10, 2011 5:38:40 GMT 2
Hi all, It's not so easy to import whatever parts you want as described above, ......... I'm long years in this business and have lot of experience. What about the quotations, it's a big surprise for me. Where are we living now - in South Africa or in North Korea? Ventz Hi Ventz You know, the truth has got a very funny way to "wiggle itself loose" - and comes to the surface ! Always ! In Afrikaans there is a saying: "n Leuen gaan snel, maar die waarheid volg dit wel. " (A lie goes fast, but the truth will eventually follow) - or something like that. And believe me - that is exactly what is going to happen - right here ! ;D I actually did not want to pass further comments, but I must admit - your second paragraph (above) really begs for a reply ! Do you really think myself, Nikki, Darryn, (and I think) Juran are lying about our personal experience in this regard ? ;D But wait - I am sure Darryn, Nikki, and maybe Jurian will be more than willing to pass a few comments here. ........I've got a feeling you are not going to believe me about my own experience ! Cheers ! Danie P.S. Darryn / Nikki If you still have any invoices, or any paperwork regarding previous imports in your possession - could you please send copies to the forum?
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Post by marius on Feb 10, 2011 7:34:59 GMT 2
Hi Charles & all
I have never used Paypal and on the surface it seems like a great idea. Paypal refers to Credit/Debit and Bank Account so it should include a normal savings account?
I had a quick peek with regard to Paypal and I am still no expert BUT I would strongly advise ALL LOCSA MEMBERS to open a separate account if they wish to make use of the Paypal system.
Paypal is not a Banking institute and they can basically do anything with your account. The local Paypal/FNB system might give better protection though.
All I am saying is - this is a great idea BUT be careful.
Regards Marius
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Post by marius on Feb 10, 2011 8:02:48 GMT 2
Hi Ventz
My posting of the 2000 "promotional" price list is in no way an effort to force you to cut your prices to that level. All I wanted illustrate was how cheap Lada spares were back then when they brought the car back into the country - at a time when the local economy was in deep deep shite.
I must say these prices were never promoted as "promotional" to me - it was the actual price list (01/03/2000). Perhaps it was just a way to con people into buying the Lada? Soon afterwards prices went through the roof.
Anyway your argument in your above post is 100% valid and I fully agree with you. It is a free country with a free market economy and you are FULLY entitled to ask whatever prices you like.
I just don't know what you mean about China - these commies are at the top of the food chain as far as I am concerned. They are in FULL control of the free market economy. Perhaps you agree?
Regards Marius
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Post by ronnie on Feb 10, 2011 8:20:51 GMT 2
Hi Ventz.
I hear what you all have to say, but if you take the time to check the prices of Lada parts in the rest of the world they are very much lower than here. This includes Australia which is at the bottom of the world, far from Russia etc. Ventz, I have said it before, I have not had a problem with YOUR prices or your service. A simple question can you justify R7000 for a starter for a Niva?. I doubt it very much. Until you were brought to my attention, we had 2 dealers whom I have no intention of using for obvious reasons. As you stated this is a free market but no one can justify greed, and these agents will get no referrals from me, in fact I will warn customers to be very careful before using them.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Feb 10, 2011 8:27:06 GMT 2
Hi Charles
<no spare cash (for Lada) saving for bike> get you LADA priorities right ;D
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Feb 10, 2011 8:36:15 GMT 2
Hi all
I know this whole issue with regard to pricing by the agents might make a lot of people uncomfortable. However I feel it is important that we (both agent & consumer) should be able freely express our concerns and issues on this Forum.
Ventz is right when he says "The customer has the power, he has the last word, he is always right."
If you as consumer feels the price is unreasonably high - walk away, there are other options available.
If the agent feels he is entitled to his aking price - so be it. The consumer naturaly also has the right to freely express his/her views on the matter.
Regards Marius
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Post by Charles on Feb 10, 2011 8:36:55 GMT 2
Haha
There is money that I save monthly for the Niva. If I then have a extra couple of sents left that goes towards the bike.
I want to get a cheap commuter. I do a 50km round trip to work and back every day. Petrol is killing me. With a bike I am looking at 40+ km/l.
The Niva is going to be my weekend monster!
Charles
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Ventzel
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Post by Ventzel on Feb 10, 2011 8:37:16 GMT 2
A lie... I never ever thought that somebody lies. I simply said that "importing parts with the circumstances described above is not so easy for me". And it is truth, I have other ways which suit me better, just personal choice. If it's easier for you - be happy, you win. My writing is very basic (of course this is not my native language) and I'm sure it is enough understandable and clear. It's ridiculous to search for hidden sense in my words, different meaning, even to modify it....... V.
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darryn
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Post by darryn on Feb 10, 2011 8:58:27 GMT 2
The kind of "to and fro"ing that's starting to happen here makes me uncomfortable. I agree with EVERYONE one who has posted on this thread, but the problem with this kind of "delayed reaction" form of communication is that is very ineffective to settle disputes, and the nature of this conversation has- in my mind- turned disputative.
I like everyone here; you add value to not just my lada ownership, but to my life, as my Niva has become an extension of me. And I've never even met any of you! So I won't be commenting on this thread anymore. Not because I'm afraid of disputes, but modern modes of communication like a forum, or sms, are not good for this. For a young person, I'm old fashioned and I'd rather do it over a beer, or in a boxing ring.
See you in the technical section!
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Post by marius on Feb 10, 2011 9:13:05 GMT 2
Hi Darryn I have to say I don't agree - the Forum is/should be a vehicle for open discussion. Obviously there are rules and we MUST AT ALL TIMES refrain from abusive remarks. BUT your opinion on this matter should however be respected - so we'll see you in the technical section However if one is not prepared to air their views on a hairy subject like this (and Darryn this is in no way directed to you) one should make this a matter between you and the agent alone - and no one else. Regards Marius PS - Darryn having an argument like this over a beer usually ends up in a brawl ;D
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darryn
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Post by darryn on Feb 10, 2011 9:18:18 GMT 2
Yes, normally it starts over a beer and ends up in boxing ring!
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Post by marius on Feb 10, 2011 9:24:01 GMT 2
You are very civil - where I come from you will most likely end up with a stab wound or two ;D
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Ventzel
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Post by Ventzel on Feb 10, 2011 9:30:56 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie,
Yes, the parts it the whole entire world are cheaper then here. THE CARS IN THE WHOLE ENTIRE WORD ARE CHEAPER THEN HERE. I've been to many places. In Europe and America the same models are ~40% less than here. It's crazy - majority of them are local products. South Africa is big car producer - no shipment, no custom duty, tax benefits with creating jobs, etc. And is a big exporter either
Even when I had my showroom on the windscreen of my Nivas were the digits R68000, I've got photos. It was year 1997-1998. The exchange rate was ~ R4.4-4.6 per one USDollar. Exactly the price for exactly the same Niva in Bulgaria was 8000 USDollars - DOUBLE cheaper. I've got the newspapers. On top of that Niva was the cheapest 4x4 here (but definitely not the worst) and the next 4x4 in the price list was the little 1.3 Daihatsu Terios for the price of R138000 - DOUBLE more expensive.
Why is that?
Because the car mafia here is incredible. Like nowhere. They play the game of competition in front of the public but behind the stage are in one strong unit. I don't know any other country which stopped to allow to its citizens to import second hand cars for their needs. Or dealers. Correct me if I'm not right. First they prohibited LHS steering, later the cars at all. They have lobby in the government and do whatever they want. Now the new restriction for the gas emissions will benefit the big companies, what about the small and medium?
The retailers are only small bolts and nuts in this huge mechanism. We are unable to change nothing.
V.
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Post by marius on Feb 10, 2011 9:47:43 GMT 2
Sorry for budging in here Ventz Absolutely! We are being conned BIG TIME since forever and the marketing people are the conn artists . No pun intended but they do say when two or more businessmen meet it is a conspiracy! Regards Marius
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Ventzel
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Post by Ventzel on Feb 10, 2011 9:58:43 GMT 2
What about the asking price of R7K for a starter, I already mentioned that this is a personal choice to sell or to buy. I've got my personal opinion but let not discuss it more here, I agree with Darryn. With e-mails is OK or on table with beer even better.
My starters cost differently, but it is not the right place here to discuss it either I also have the same CMH price list which Marius uploaded which was glue for the dealership net countrywide (looks exactly the same), or the next edition (September 2002 on the top) and the starter motor there is priced R3480.51+VAT. Almost R4000 in total - 9 years ago. Please fellows, don't insist that it must cost less today.
V.
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Post by marius on Feb 10, 2011 10:07:46 GMT 2
Well Ventz the fact is you can get it today (2011) from Russia for less than R2000 ALL INCLUDED AND there are many other parts that can be imported privately for MUCH LESS than what the agents charge - these are facts - no lies. It just doesn't make sense
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Post by Charles on Feb 10, 2011 10:12:40 GMT 2
Guys R7000 for a genuine starter sounds like alot. I have seen invoices for starters of over R12000 and then its one of the cheap ones. On most of the new cars to replace the clutch is over R25 000!
I know prices are high but is is still not that bad if you compare it to some of the other cars on our roads.
On my Conquest I blew a engine mounting. No aftermarket part avalible (like most parts on the car), so I got a Quote from Toyota. R2000, thats for a piece of rubber that has been lying on a shelf for 20 years. So I did the only thing that I could. Fixed mine with a piece of rubber floor tile.
All I am trying to say is that yes parts are expensive, keep in mind they have to import it and still make a decent profit, If you go and compare prices with some of the popular cars that gets advertised as cheap to run you might be in for a big surprise.
Charles
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Post by marius on Feb 10, 2011 11:53:00 GMT 2
Hi Charles Your point confirms what Ventz said in his previous post and I agree. BUT then you will have to consider what you are paying for the car. That starter motor you refer to is probably from something that cost 300K and more - correct me if I'm wrong because I know French cars spare prices are beyond ridiculous! The Lada is the cheapest 4x4xFAR ( by a million miles) and one would expect spare prices to be within an exceptable price range. This is indeed the case when you look at the retail price given in Russia and elsewhere in the EU. It is common practice for the retailer to get as much as 50% discount on spare parts. Most if not all these imported parts are shipped by sea - which is MUCH cheaper than flying them in. The retailer can then reclaim most of the taxes - which is not the case with a private import. Hier geld die Wet van Transvaal ;D Nikki paid around R1000 retail for her starter motor - ALL included she paid less than R2000. Let's say the retailer gets it for R500. He ships it for a hefty R300 (will be much less). He pays import duties of R150(will be less). Let's say he paid R1000 ALL included. Selling that product for R7000 is called ripping people off BIG TIME. I would say selling that same product for R3000 should make the costumer happy and still leave the retailer with a healthy profit margin. Happy costumer soon becomes happy costumers - putting more food on the table for the retailer. In my world that makes sense Regards Marius
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Post by Charles on Feb 10, 2011 12:51:42 GMT 2
Hi Marius
You have a good point there. The starter I am talking about is for a ten year old bakkie. Didn't even cost R160 000 new.
Charles
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Post by marius on Feb 10, 2011 12:55:24 GMT 2
Hi all I am going to conclude my end of this discussion with the following: - There is no argument that we as consumers would prefer to support our local agents.
- The dealer has the right to charge whatever price for any given product.
- The consumer has a choice who he/she prefers to buy from.
Regards Marius
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Post by Charles on Feb 10, 2011 13:00:16 GMT 2
Well said Marius.
I think this topic is closed.
Charles
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Post by hotstuff on Feb 10, 2011 15:06:43 GMT 2
Bloody ridiculous this is. Sorry just how i feel
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