|
Post by maddy on Sept 23, 2011 20:09:32 GMT 2
Hi there. I recently bought my first Lada and unfortunately already seem to have a problem. On the way down from Brits to the Free State the Lada developed a small vibration. Once home I had the alignment checked and all seems to be ok. I took her for a test drive and the vibrations are worse than before. Before I felt the vibrations starting at 3000rpm in fifth gear, but now it starts in 2nd gear already. Tomorrow I am planning on checking the bearings of the transfer case just in case these are worn through. I have been onto Baxter's Lada Niva site but would appreciate a more up-to-date input. If you know what the problem is....please help. Thanks Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by danie on Sept 23, 2011 20:37:09 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
Welcome to the Forum - your Lada really looks impressive !
Hopefully the "bullet holes" at the side of your Lada are not caused by the vibration problem . ;D
More pics of your Lada would be very welcome. !
Most Ladas do have a slight vibration problem, but the fact that the problem seem to get worse on your Lada, makes me think that the Universal Joints at the Propshafts might be in desperate need of some grease.
Somebody also needs to make sure that the Transfer Box brackets are not coming loose at the moment.
If you do know somebody with fairly basic mechanical skills, you should be able to keep the Lada mobile quite easily. Any reputable mechanic in your area should also be able to keep you happy - Ladas are very basic, and easy to work on.
If you do need any help, just give a shout - the gang here at the forum are always keen to help.
Regards
Danie
|
|
|
Post by marius on Sept 23, 2011 20:53:21 GMT 2
Hi Maddy Warm welcome to the forum That is an interesting looking Niva - looks a bit like one I saw in Potch (minus the bullet holes!). Have a look at the intermediate shaft connecting the gear box and the transfer case. Perhaps the grease escaped from the CV on the shaft - you will see a lot of grease on the body near the CV if that is the case. Also put the low/high range levers into the neutral position and shift into 2nd gear. Rev the car to about 3000 rpm and see if the high/low range as well as the diff lock levers are moving up and down. You will probably also feel the vibration if the levers are moving. If that is the case you will need to realign the transfer case and the intermediate shaft. Let us know what you find. Regards Marius
|
|
spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by spikes on Sept 24, 2011 6:25:54 GMT 2
Welcome to the forum, Maddy have a look at the pointers given, that should improve the vibrations to an acceptable level Spikes
|
|
|
Post by maddy on Sept 24, 2011 8:47:00 GMT 2
Hi guys Thanks for the advice. The brackets, Universal joints, alignment and all of those things have all been checked. I have also done the gear check as suggested by Marius. The propshaft and transfer case are going to be removed to be checked out and re-greased as well as checking all the bearings involved. Fortunately I do have a mechanic handy - my dad is a retired mechanic/farmer - so any further suggestions are more than welcome. Fortunately I dont pay for labour . Danie - After the vibrations started, I just couldnt help myself, I took the semi-automatic and thought I would assist with the vibrations. I must say, it didnt help a heck of a lot Maddy Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Sept 24, 2011 9:24:58 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
Welcome to the Forum. If the vibrations started very suddenly There must be a reason. I think most of the points have been covered by the other members. The most likely ones to start with are the greasing of the intermediate shaft C/V and the universals on the prop shaft. Do not forget the sliding splines. Also check everything is fastened tight. Marius and Danie have already mentioned these things and providing they are correct you should have a vibration free Niva. I must also mention vibrations can be very frustrating at times and are not always easy to correct.
Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by maddy on Sept 24, 2011 9:33:32 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
Thanks and I will mention the sliding splines to the mechanic. I know most of the stuff is fastened quite well seeing as the previous owner spot welded everything at some point or another. Hopefully by Monday I will know what is wrong and can once again look out for a nice 4x4 route.
Maddy
|
|
|
Post by marius on Sept 24, 2011 10:05:57 GMT 2
Thought I saw a little boer goat! The next step should be the engine mountings - one of our female members had an issue with that. With the wide tyres (I like the rims) you can also check the steering box mounting on the body for cracks. Hope you get sorted soon, but it looks like you are in good hands. Marius
|
|
spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by spikes on Sept 24, 2011 10:43:37 GMT 2
Maddy,
Also check the play on the front wheel bearings I assume you have downloaded the NIVA manuals for you dad?
Spikes
|
|
|
Post by maddy on Sept 24, 2011 11:41:00 GMT 2
Spikes - Yes, I have downloaded the Niva manuals (mainly for myself) and have gone through them. I have checked the wheel bearings and they are new bearings that were put in just before I bought the Lada. Marius - Yes, you did see a boer goat . I have had the engine mountings checked and they seem fine, but I noticed that the transfer case doesnt have adequate braces on it. I am thinking of putting new ones on with maybe a layer of rubber between the body and the brace. Thanks for all the advice, guys. I really appreciate it. Now it is time for this little grease monkey to explore some more Maddy
|
|
|
Post by danie on Sept 25, 2011 7:26:52 GMT 2
The prop shaft and transfer case are going to be removed to be checked out Maddy Hi Maddy A damaged Rubber Coupler (the so called "doughnut") could also be the cause of vibrations. Before the Transfer Box gets removed, the Rubber Coupling ("Doughnut") between the Gearbox and Transfer Box needs to be clamped with a big hose clamp - for two good reasons: 1. The Coupler is under stress all the time, and it is very difficult to remove the bolts when the coupler does not get clamped down with a hose clamp, or something similar. 2. The Rubber Coupler can easily gets damaged during an attempt to remove the Bolts, when it does not get clamped to release the stress - and should it get damaged, it would still be difficult to determine whether the Coupler has been the cause of vibrations, or not. This pic shows the rubber Coupler, with a clamp on the outside: Danie
|
|
|
Post by jaco1978 on Sept 25, 2011 8:04:54 GMT 2
Hi Maddy, welcome to the forum. All the best with sorting the vibrations and I hope you have a lot of fun with your Lada.
Happy Lada day,
Jaco
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Sept 25, 2011 8:39:12 GMT 2
Spikes - I noticed that the transfer case doesnt have adequate braces on it. I am thinking of putting new ones on with maybe a layer of rubber between the body and the brace. Maddy Hi Maddy I am not sure what you mean by the above,can you explain please Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by marius on Sept 25, 2011 10:15:19 GMT 2
Hi Maddy The mountings on the transfer case should include the following on either side: - The bracket itself that includes the rubber mounting
- The adjuster plate on top of the bracket
- Two spacer washers (one on each corner)
All of the above (x2) gets mounted onto the 4 studs underneath the car. These studs have a tendency to strip easily. If possible use nylon lock nuts on the studs. I am not sure about using rubber there as it might trap moister and become a rust trap - but maybe you should listen to what your dad has to say I am also not sure whether all Nivas have the spacer washers fitted? Marius Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Sept 25, 2011 10:30:52 GMT 2
Hi Maddy If You can find them use these 25mm long joiner nuts on the mounting studs. They spread the load over all of the thread. Ronnie Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by maddy on Sept 25, 2011 11:13:21 GMT 2
Ronnie The braces that are currently on my Lada seem very thin and not well situated. I was thinking of replacing them with something similar to the picture attached. I have been through the Baxters site for information on the Lada and found various pics of braces and mounts. The question though is which is the best of them. Thanks guys for the information, I will definitely pass this on to my dad so when we work on it together he will know what I am talking about Maddy Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Sept 25, 2011 18:43:14 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
You are welcome to try a brace like that but, I have already made one and can only report it was a waste of time. The only real difference it made was more noise being heard via the body. There should be no braces of any kind fitted to a standard Niva. The only things holding the T/C in position are the 2 mountings and the Intermediate shaft. Just be care full as anything you add to try to eliminate vibrations may just mask them and lead to more problems. I for one have nearly been driven to despair with the vibrations I have had for a long time. The last adjustments I did I tried out on a run today, and there is very little vibration left. What I have done has had no cost implications at all. The main problem I have eventually discovered was the fact the T/C mountings were hard against the mounting studs. Why I do not know, but doing a slight mod has more or less cured it. As Trevor has done, be systematic and start at one end and work carefully checking after each change you make.
Ronnie
Ronnie
|
|
Ladaniva
Full Niva Petrol Head
A Lada Niva for a new lease of life
Posts: 240
Registered: Apr 1, 2011 21:33:06 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Ladaniva on Sept 26, 2011 0:09:58 GMT 2
Hi Maddy, Welcome to the forum and congratulations with the purchase of your Lada! I am very interested to know where you bought yout Lada; I am a bit suspicious about their knowledge of Ladas when I see the very negative offset of the wheels fitted. Not to panic if you use your Lada as a daily runner and your father/the mechanic check the Lada through quite often. I suggest (and only for safety sake) that whenever you do take your Lada offroad and get back, get the mechanic to look the Lada through, and preferbly take it for a short run. As other members may have mentioned to you already, a Lada was never designed to run on so much wheel offset, let alone tyres so wide on top of that (Ladas simply do not need wide tyres to get the job done (Marius is our forum diplomat) and the only reason why people fit them is for the looks), and this may cause some components to take huge stresses, especialy when working hard (steering box mentioned in this thread, as an example). The Lada guru in South Africa is Ventz (search the forum for his contact details), and if the Lada drives you nuts, l suggest your father call him. I lived with Lada vibration for more than ten years and it never broke down - if I knew of Ventz then he could have sorted my Lada out then (I would probably not have appreciated all his advice, because I was also young and liked wide wheels, flying through the air with my Niva etc.) ;D My guess why the Lada started to vibrate after such a short while: start with what was fitted new to your Lada and check if it was done properly and using the correct parts, fasteners shims/spacers and check if all are still tight. There are very specific ways to alingn rotating parts on different cars (the most likely and obvious cause of vibration if bushes and bearings are still fine and all components properly tightened and there), and if these directions are not folowed, solving vibration problems will baffle even the most experienced mechanics. A small thing, like a balancing weight attached to a propshaft (+-the weight of a five rand coin) that came off during a normal 4 x 4 trip had quite a few mechanics scratching their heads in this country, so to try and give advice on the forum of what may have caused the start of the vibration will not help much. Let your father/the mechanic have a look at the mechanical diagrams of the Lada (do not forget what is available on Youtube) and how things are aligned (including spacers etc) and I am sure he will very quickly solve the problem (as Danie said Ladas are very straightforward cars to work on and maintain, so any good mechanic that is willing to read can fix it). Regards (and let us know how your first real 4 x 4 outing went - I can only think you will fall in love with the Lada after that, because you surely got the most handsome and honest 4 x 4 in SA!), Fanus
|
|
|
Post by maddy on Sept 26, 2011 21:38:13 GMT 2
Hi Guys Once again thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I wasnt around today while my dad worked on the lada, but I am going to check things out tomorrow morning. Apparently there is a thickish shaft that is bent but will find out tomorrow more about which/what shaft that is. It seems the vibrations are coming from the propshaft. Once again I cant give a full report until I have been under there myself to get a better understanding of what my dad is talking about. Fanus - I bought the Lada from a guy in Britz and quite honestly, I wasnt looking at the tyres. The bullet holes were more impressive . I have 2 different types of tyres for this Lada - the ATs and the "standard" tyres (slightly wider than the normal Lada tyres) shown in my one pic. I will only use the ATs for 4x4 purposes and that is ONLY if it is rough terrain. I am still in the learning process though so any advice regarding Ladas is more than welcome and I will listen . Thanks for the advice. I am checking things out as I go along and will take everything into consideration. Regards Madeline PS My dad wants to steal my ATs for his poor little Kia 4x4 - maybe it will improve the vehicle
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Sept 26, 2011 22:01:19 GMT 2
That Kia of his has it been lifted?
Charles
|
|
|
Post by danie on Sept 27, 2011 6:31:20 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
If you keep the steering box properly lubricated, and drive the Lada with care, I don't think there should be any reason to be concerned about the bigger wheels.
My Lada has covered about 60 000 kms with 205 / 70 / R15 's. and the rim offsets are completely wrong. The wheel bearings have covered more than 56 000 kms with the bigger wheels, and is still in perfect condition. There are no body cracks or other problems either.
According Jan from Belgium his Lada has covered 80 or 85 000 kms (can't remember the exact distance he has mentioned) with big wheels, and only an aftermarket idler arm has once been broken during offroad driving.
At one stage I also considered the skinny tyres, but I am happy with the bigger ones - have decided to go even bigger.
Danie
|
|
|
Post by maddy on Sept 27, 2011 15:20:47 GMT 2
Hi Charles - I dont think his Kia has been lifted, but I do know that he has measured the tyres and will apparently "fit my real 4x4 perfectly" (that is when I conveniently started to gag ). Danie - I checked for cracks already as this Lada has apparently been on similar size tyres for a while and am happy to report there are no cracks. I am usually a very careful driver where it comes to 4x4 as well as town driving and will hope to keep it in that kind of condition (no cracks etc). Finished working for the day so going to check what damage there is under the Lada. I think it is time to put a certain Kia owner in his place . Thanks guys Maddy
|
|
|
Post by maddy on Sept 29, 2011 15:17:47 GMT 2
Hi Guys
Ok now I have a small problem, about 15 - 20 mm of a problem. After finding a problem with the lay shaft (between gearbox and transfer case) and fixing this, there is now a gap of 15 - 20 mm. PLEASE HELP AGAIN!!!! I dont know if the previous owner changed transfer cases or if maybe the shafts are incorrect (just guessing at this moment).
Once again looking for advice.
Thanks Maddy
|
|
|
Post by marius on Sept 29, 2011 17:39:12 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
Not sure if the 2cm gap appeared after the fact?
You are supposed to be able to slide the transfer case backwards/forwards in the bracket. However if your problem is the same as Ronnie's you should try and make it up with 2cm spacers.
Marius
|
|
|
Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Sept 29, 2011 18:05:51 GMT 2
2cm sounds more like something was not put back Ari
|
|
|
Post by maddy on Sept 29, 2011 18:15:25 GMT 2
hi guys, regarding Maddys Lada. I removed the TC and the lay shaft between the two boxes and found that the lay shaft was not all the way into the CV joint. Some where a long the line the shaft had pulled out and the snap ring had got damaged. I serviced the CV joint and reassermbled the lay shaft with new snap ring. BUT after I refitted the TC I found this gap that we are talking about. I fitted the doughnut to the gearbox side first but with the TC fully forward on the mountings we have this gap. If I just tighten the bolts (as some $%^&*(#@) has done before then the shaft will just pull out of the CV joint again. Can I put spacer washers between the the yoke and doughnut, won't that cause problems in the future. Surely there must be a different length spigot for the layshaft. Not too clued up on Lada parts. thanks for all your help and advice. Leon (father/mechanic)
|
|
|
Post by danie on Sept 29, 2011 18:47:29 GMT 2
Hi Leon
Welcome to the forum - I am sure you are more than capable of getting Maddy's Lada in perfect condition.
Maybe another solution - instead of using spacers, would be to remove the studs completely - and rather to relocate it with some sort of re-enforcement ?
If you do have any idea to share with us, please feel free to let us know. I am sure Maddy would not mind - you are obviously free to join this forum as member as well.
Regards
Danie
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Sept 29, 2011 18:51:01 GMT 2
Hi Maddy / Leon
Your problem is the same as mine was, but 2 cm is a lot, and you could not fix that the way I did. Spacing that amount at the doughnut would also not be advisable or even possible as there are locating lugs involved. Like Ari said it is more like something not assembled correctly, but I can confirm there is nothing that can be done when assembling it that can change the length. Is the doughnut an original or has someone fitted a different one?. A photo if possible would help.
Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Sept 29, 2011 18:53:59 GMT 2
You can try what Ronnie and Trev did which is using spacers between the CV and the TC.
Ari
|
|
|
Post by maddy on Sept 29, 2011 19:18:28 GMT 2
Hi guys
Is there a bush that fits inside the gearbox flange to centralise the lay shaft? Danie - Thanks for the suggestion. My dad will take a look at the Lada and see what he can do and if it is possible. I will let you know what happens with that. Ronnie - The doughnut looks like an original as it has the locating lugs, unfortunately it is back on the Lada so cannot take a photo of the doughnut itself. I will however take a photo of the whole undercarriage and post it here tomorrow. Ari - Unfortunatly I cant put a spacer between the CV and the TC as the CV sits flush against the TC flange.
Thanks again Maddy
|
|