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Post by danie on Sept 29, 2011 19:44:15 GMT 2
Hi guys Is there a bush that fits inside the gearbox flange to centralise the lay shaft ? Maddy Hi Maddy Yes, there is a bush - the rubber bush on my Flange is slightly worn, and needs to be replaced as well : Danie
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Post by ronnie on Sept 29, 2011 19:53:08 GMT 2
Hi guys Is there a bush that fits inside the gearbox flange to centralise the lay shaft ? Maddy Hi Maddy Yes, there is a bush - the rubber bush on my Flange is slightly worn, and needs to be replaced as well : Danie Hi Danie That is a clever photo with the gearbox output flange fitted to the transfer case ;D Ronnie
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Post by maddy on Sept 29, 2011 20:07:15 GMT 2
Thanks for the picture Danie. I can see my Lada is going to cost a fortune to repair Mine is missing that bush and I have a sneaky feeling that either the yoke or the TC were replaced somewhere along the line with the incorrect size/model. Maddy
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Post by ronnie on Sept 29, 2011 20:27:45 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
As far as I am aware all the transfer boxes are the same, as are the flanges. I think you need to compare everything with the manual and parts catalogue. Post a few pics as soon as you can.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Sept 29, 2011 20:52:48 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
You could have a look at the Parts Catalog - page 259 of 584 - and compare the listed components with the components on your Lada.
The part number of the Flange with rubber bush is 21213 - 2202024 . Maybe that's the only part which is really needed.
If the local prices of that component is unacceptable - you could contact Pavel in Russia at barter2007@gmail.com - just ask for a price + air freight cost.
Danie
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Post by maddy on Sept 30, 2011 6:09:35 GMT 2
Hi Danie
Thanks, I will see what is going on. Any parts I need will have to come from JHB or Pretoria as there doesnt seem to be any stockists in Bloemfontein.
I will compare prices and see about importing if they are too expensive here.
Once again, thanks Maddy
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vincentc
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 1,130
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Post by vincentc on Sept 30, 2011 19:47:44 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
Ventz, though pricy when compared to the overseas suppliers has stuff in stock and posts it to you too.
He has helped me out the k@k a few times already.
Regards Vincent
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Post by hotstuff on Sept 30, 2011 21:01:14 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
nice lada good luck holla if you need help Regards mike
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Post by maddy on Oct 2, 2011 9:11:52 GMT 2
Hi guys Sorry this took so long but here are some pics of the gap (sorry about the clarity) Attachments:
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Post by maddy on Oct 2, 2011 9:13:17 GMT 2
Another Regards Maddy Attachments:
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Post by maddy on Oct 2, 2011 9:15:01 GMT 2
Last one, I promise Regards Maddy Attachments:
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Post by danie on Oct 2, 2011 10:41:10 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
I think at the moment the intermediate shaft and Transfer Box is not lined up correctly to the Gearbox on your Lada.
If all components are lined up correctly, the gap between the Flange and Doughnut should be exactly the same at all three connection points.
I think you should also have a close look at the condition of the three engine mounting rubbers - two in front and one at the rear of the Gearbox . If any of them are faulty, it would be almost impossible to line up everything correctly - and to determine how big the exact gap between the Doughnut and Flange really is.
Regards
Danie
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Post by ronnie on Oct 2, 2011 11:20:09 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
That is a big gap. Apart from checking the engine mountings as Danie has suggested it is difficult to see what could be wrong. There is a given length for the intermediate shaft which I can`t find at the moment, but I am sure someone (Vincent) will remember what it is. At least that way you can then at least know wither the problem is in the intermediate shaft or not.
Ronnie
PS I have just spoken to Vincent and the intermediate shaft face to face is 122mm. I hope this helps.
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Post by maddy on Oct 2, 2011 14:29:12 GMT 2
Hi guys Danie - We have checked all three connection points and they are correct. The three rubbers have also been checked - the rear is brand new and the other 2 look almost new as well. My dad has checked the lining up against the manual downloaded off of Baxters Lada site. Ronnie - thanks for the info - going to check that out just now. My dad is a great mechanic (and no I am not just saying that because he is my dad - he has years of experience as a qualified diesel and petrol mechanic) and I am sure we are missing something here. I just cant figure out what it is. The Lada seems very basic and easy enough to maintain, it is just driving me bonkers that we cant figure this out! Time to read the manual again. Maybe third time lucky Thanks guys Maddy
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Post by ronnie on Oct 2, 2011 17:18:05 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
I am sure if you check everything you will come right. I also had a gap at that point but it was very little, just enough to stop the T/C aligning properly. It took me many months to find the problem.
Ronnie
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Ladaniva
Full Niva Petrol Head
A Lada Niva for a new lease of life
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Post by Ladaniva on Oct 2, 2011 22:46:19 GMT 2
Hi Maddy,
Glad to hear you plan to run your Niva carefully off-road, it will surely make maintenance a lot more affordable and trips worth remembering. There are Ladas in SA that have done almost a million kilometers - needless to say that is only possible if you do not abuse it and maintain it properly. Unfortunately one can not always predict what is going to happen to you off road, or more to the point, your vehicle. I have seen Ladas with bent rear axles due to the wrong wheel offset, and I think it is irresponsible to tell Lada owners not to worry, just drive slowly (especially aoman in crime ridden SA). Please note this paragraph is only intended for you to consider your safety, nothing else. Also read Ventzes remarks on this forum regarding wider rims/way out wheel offset and be wise. Also show your father this paragraph so that he may read the early warning signs of critical components that is going to fail due to the way out wheel offset on your beautiful Niva.
Something your father may look at regarding the misalignment is that the spider itself may by bent (the thing that pushes into the big rubber dougnut). It caught me out, and I had it in my hand. If it was not for the experienced eye of Jan from Centurion Lada, I would have tried to assemble the whole lot with the new doughnut (rubber allows it), and would surely have battled to balance/align the lot. I agree with Ronnie that there is not much that can be wrong in that area of which you posted the photos of, if you used the correct and sound parts and do the alignment as per the book.
One of these days your father may help other Lada owners in the Bloem area, because any experienced diesel mac that can solve the Niva vibration problem should be able to solve any other Lada problem (adjust timing chain frequently and see that the front diff is always properly tightened etc).
Regards,
Fanus
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Ventzel
Senior Niva Petrol Head
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Post by Ventzel on Oct 2, 2011 22:58:21 GMT 2
Hi Maddy,
It's quite a possible the intermediate shaft been modified/shortened. It's not very clear to determine the distances from the photo and the boot is not original. There is no boot cover as well and a funny cable tie has been used to keep the boot in position - it can hold the boot but will not keep the hot grease inside when the shaft turns with high revolutions.
Rgds
Ventz
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vincentc
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
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Post by vincentc on Oct 5, 2011 12:25:06 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
Have you been able to measure the length of the intermediate shaft?
Regards Vincent
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Post by marius on Oct 5, 2011 15:37:49 GMT 2
Hi Maddy Having a real close look at things there is only one thing that I can see to cause the 2cm a gap. The flange on the output shaft of the gearbox is either not fitted or a non standard flange has been fitted? That is to say if everything else (i.e. the gearbox) is standard. Marius Attachments:
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Post by maddy on Oct 5, 2011 16:19:05 GMT 2
Hi guys Slowly but surely we are working our way through everything on the Lada. Right now we have found 2 parts that are missing. One is the rubber bush from the picture below and the other is a spring. The cause of the vibration could be coming from the lack of the bush. There is a lot of play (obviously) in this area. I need to find a rubber bush and also figure out exactly where the spring is meant to be (closer look at the catalogue will more than likely help ) Btw the "cable tie" thing that is around the doughnut is a clamp to keep it in place until all the parts are fitted back together. Regards Maddy PS there is also a slight problem with the TC mountings. The bolts anchoring the driver side mounting have been incorrectly installed. This will be fixed soon. Pics to follow
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Post by maddy on Oct 5, 2011 16:21:41 GMT 2
Rubber bush missing Attachments:
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Post by maddy on Oct 5, 2011 17:03:15 GMT 2
Bolt issues on TC mounting Attachments:
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Post by ronnie on Oct 5, 2011 17:17:41 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
It is not easy to see from a photo, but I would have expected the 2 studs to be at the same end of the slots, and they are not.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Oct 5, 2011 17:29:05 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
The spring that fits near the end of the end of the output shaft has been discontinued a long time ago and not needed. The missing rubber bush will also make no difference with regard to the 2cm gap.
I can also see from your latest pic that the adjusting plate between the body and the transfer case is not standard.
Can you perhaps take a photograph showing the flange coupling on the gearbox?
Marius
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Post by danie on Oct 5, 2011 18:23:19 GMT 2
Hi Maddy The rubber inside my Lada's flange will be replaced with a Teflon (PTFE) bush in the near future - I have already bought a piece of Teflon rod - still need to machine the bush though. Danie
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Post by ronnie on Oct 5, 2011 18:29:17 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
The cable tie Ventz was referring to is the one holding the boot to the C/V. Ventz mentioned it will not keep the hot grease in. It depends what quality of cable tie you use as I also have a Hellerman one on mine and it works perfectly and keeps the grease in with no problem.
Ronnie
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Post by maddy on Oct 5, 2011 19:29:12 GMT 2
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Post by marius on Oct 5, 2011 20:04:26 GMT 2
Ok Maddy I see you have the correct flange on the gearbox so this remains a mystery. I will investigate a bit further.
Marius
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Oct 5, 2011 20:36:15 GMT 2
Hi maddy
I think the Moegoe before you as duffed the transfer case mounts. Perhaps I will measure the distance from the gearbox mounting stud to the from TC stud. If this is the problem Simon has documented a solution to redo the mounting studs on a TC.
Regards Vincent
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Post by danie on Oct 5, 2011 21:30:55 GMT 2
Hi Maddy
Another possibility is that the Thrust Washer (part no 2121 - 1802210) which is located at the inside of the Transfer Box, right next to the bearing (close to the Flange), is missing on your Lada.
That Trust washer is quite thick - and should it be missing, the Flange will be forced deeper inside the housing by the flange Nut. And when the Flange is located deeper towards the inside of the Transfer Box, it is obvious that this will cause a gap between the Flange and the Doughnut.
So I think it might make sense to remove the Transfer Box Flange, to ensure that the Thrust washer is still in place.
You could also have a look at the exploded drawing of the Transfer Box at page 248 of 584 - the Thrust Washer which I am referring to is part 16.
Regards
Danie
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