|
Post by jaco1978 on Aug 3, 2011 9:12:45 GMT 2
Hi all,
I had a look-around and I have noted that my vapour separator box has been removed. So the two pipes coming from the fuel tank has been linked together and then runs to the back.
Is there a mod that can be done to replace it? If so, how would I go about with it?
Otherwise it will be time for another new part.
T'nx,
Jaco
|
|
|
Post by marius on Aug 3, 2011 9:23:47 GMT 2
Hi Jaco
The two pipes from the fuel tank should be connected (by a T) to the overflow pipe which ends above the fuel cap. However Ventz pointed out that the separator is a necessary part but the problem is that the plastic connectors are absolute rubbish (won't last long). Some people had some success with Qbond.
Marius
|
|
spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by spikes on Aug 3, 2011 9:47:04 GMT 2
Hi Jaco
Ronnie made up a "collector pipe" to replace the VS box. He posted about it. If I remember correctly, his last report was that he felt it was to small. My Qbond repair has held up since July 2010 (about 8000km)
Spikes
|
|
|
Post by jaco1978 on Aug 3, 2011 9:47:54 GMT 2
Marius, My two thin (green) pipes come together with a T-piece and then runs to the back and comes out behind the right rear wheel. No box in sight. I understand that those to pipes must be connected to the box and from there go somewhere. Oi! Sounds like a very mysterious black box of sorts.
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Aug 3, 2011 9:52:48 GMT 2
Hi jaco
What has been done with yours will work, mine is the same, but it is not completely successful, as when the tank is full and you park in the sun the only place for the petrol to go when it expands is out the pipe. I even had mine doing it when parked under the carport. You really need the separator tank or something with the same capacity. What Spikes is doing to reinforce the connections is correct. I use various sizes of electrical Ferrel's to do the same. As Marius says the tanks are of poor quality, and must be treated gently as the connections break very easily, even removing the pipes is enough to break the connections. If you need to remove the pipes for any reason heat them with a hair dryer to soften them. Be very careful as there is petrol vapour involved.
Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by marius on Aug 3, 2011 10:07:53 GMT 2
Hi Jaco
If you open the lid at the fuel cap - just above the cap to the right there is a hole that penetrates the body. The overflow pipe should end there. The original overflow pipe flares at the end to keep it in position.
If the pipe ends in the body - like yours - your car will smell of fuel vapour.
Marius
|
|
|
Post by keithbatkins on Aug 3, 2011 10:18:01 GMT 2
Good Morning Guys. As you know from previous posts all of 'my plumbing' is in place. If however one or both of the small black pipes which lead from the vapour box to the fuel tank are collapsed (as I think may well be the case) what happens to the petrol in the tank when it gets hot and expands? It will not be able to get into the vapour box and if neccessary then get out via the larger vent pipe from the top of the vapour box which ends up in the fuelcap housing.
(Not into the fuelcap/filler additional pipe as I now understand (I think!) the difference between those two pipes. The one in the housing is the vent pipe from the vapourbox whilst the other in the fuelcap/ filler is to assist in filling the tank?)
So where can that expanded petrol go and is that the reason why Jacob (and others) have had the vapour tank removed and the petrol is just allowed to escape ? This 'direct route' would also allow the petrol tank to have the ability to vent and stop my vacuum problem when trying to get the cap off.
Sounds as if I would be better off without this complicated system and rather than just replace those small black pipes I should replace them and then remove the vapour tank ?
Comments and advice please. Regards and best wishes. Keith and CERATO
|
|
|
Post by keithbatkins on Aug 3, 2011 10:23:59 GMT 2
My earlier post should have course been better put as... replace the small black plastic pipes, connect them together and to the vapour vent pipe (which is flared and ends up in the fillercap housing) and then remove the vapour box ? This seems to make better sense Regards, Keith and CERATO
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Aug 3, 2011 13:05:47 GMT 2
Hi Keith
Be aware if you park in the sun with a full tank you will lose a considerable amount of fuel as there is now no tank for the petrol to accumulate in. For the tank to develop a vaccum either both small pipes need to be blocked or the big pipe needs to be blocked.
Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by keithbatkins on Aug 3, 2011 14:27:03 GMT 2
Thanks Ronnie. I hope that I have now solved the problem Took out the back seat and RH side panel and fuel tank coverplate and really checked the small pipe runs. They all seemed OK. The larger diameter green pipe (one that leads to the filler space) is so long as to be unbelievable and seemed to be wedged between the vapour box and the side panel. Left the car in the sun for +/- 2 hours and undid the fillercap. Hard to undo and lound sound of pressure being released So.....I could not free the green pipe and decided to cut of the flared end, pull the pipe into the car and try and release it that way. Pulled from the point where it joined the vapour box and it pulled free very easily. This thing is nearly two metres long Coiled it nicely, used a couple of cable ties to keep it 'neat' and rethreaded the (now cut off) end back into the filler space. Knocked the centre out of a 6mm rivet and pushed the rivet (now with a hole up the middle) into the pipe to act as the (cut off) flange and pushed it back into place. That was a few hours ago with the car still in the sun and I have just tried the filler cap again. Comes free with little effort and no pressure release sound. ;D I'll leave everything out of the back for a day or two and see how things go with fingers crossed. Is there any special reason why that large green pipe should be so long as this would seem to be the cause of the problem ? Regards, Keith and CERATO
|
|
spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by spikes on Aug 3, 2011 14:40:01 GMT 2
Hi Keith No reason at all. Cut it to the required length. Sounds like you have solved your problem. Now where exactly did you find the toolbox??
spikes
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Aug 3, 2011 14:53:01 GMT 2
Hi Keith
I do not know why the pipe is so long as I cut about 1 m off mine as well. Glad you managed to find the fault as I would really prefer to have it fitted. Like everything else there is a reason for it being there. In this case it is to give space for the petrol in the tank to expand to.
Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by marius on Aug 3, 2011 15:04:53 GMT 2
Hi Keith I think most of the overflow hoses are very long - mine included. I kept it long - thinking that it would be able to swallow the overflowed fuel. It does to a certain extent - as long as you don't fill her up. I did notice some fuel spilling when I fill her up but on a long journey - filling her up should be fine. I still have no idea as to what could be the cause of the heavy suction on your filler but I don't think it has anything to do with the length of the overflow hose Marius
|
|
|
Post by keithbatkins on Aug 3, 2011 15:37:30 GMT 2
Thanks again Guys for all the assistance and advice. It really is appreciated Spikes...where was the toolkit ? When I took off the righthand panelling it was wedged just in front (ie towards the front of the car) of where the access panel for the rear light cluster is. I guess that if I had really been looking for it I would have seen the narrow end but I just assumed that it was 'missing' when I got the car....along with the Driver's Manual. Lada Centurion very kindly gave me one of those when I took the car to them to be checked over after I'd bought it Regards to all Keith and CERATO
|
|
spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by spikes on Aug 3, 2011 19:54:56 GMT 2
Thanks Keith I'll dig for gold tomorrow!
Regards Spikes
|
|
|
Post by keithbatkins on Aug 4, 2011 9:32:46 GMT 2
Hi Spike, It really isn't that big a tool kit ! Please see the photographs. If you really want one though and can't find one 'hidden' in your bodywork; next time I have to visit Lada Centurion I shall ask them if they have one going spare. Regards, Keith and CERATO
|
|
spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by spikes on Aug 5, 2011 7:03:39 GMT 2
Hi Keith Thanks for the kind offer! I did not strike it rich when I had a look yesterday. The kit is not essential to my happiness and I carry a fairly comprehensive tool kit in the NIVA
Regards
Spikes
|
|
Nikki Lada
Senior Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 353
Registered: Jun 6, 2011 8:12:13 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Nikki Lada on Oct 30, 2011 7:50:28 GMT 2
Hi Guys The lovely Nikita developed a strong petrol smell a few days ago that was so bad I removed the back seat and panel yesterday to check it out. I’ve had a few petrol problems over the years so I knew how to do this, and the usual areas to check, but I could find nothing obvious and the smell now seems to have disappeared! Nikita doesn’t have the vapour separator tank and she is the fuel injection model. I think she has a similar system as Jaco and Ronnie with two thin, green, plastic pipes that go from both ends of the petrol tank into a T-piece that is connected to a small, plastic, fuel filter. A thicker pipe is attached to the top of this and runs along the r/h side of the car, over the wheel arch, across the back and exits the vehicle at the rear left of the car. I never fill her to capacity to avoid the spills and the smells so I’m not sure what’s going on here. Am I missing something? NIKKI
|
|
|
Post by marius on Oct 30, 2011 8:01:03 GMT 2
Hi Nikki ;D
If the fuel smell is in the inside of the car you should check all the connections from the tank to the T. It may also be that the fumes are coming through the breather pipe. Mine is definitely pushing some fuel through on a hot day so I will have to look at an alternative separator box. The original one is just too flimsy to even consider it as a replacement.
The fuel smell can also come from the engine area - I would also check all the connections in the engine compartment whilst the car is idling.
Marius
|
|
|
Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Oct 30, 2011 9:06:46 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
Ask Neil and Pavel if you are supposed to have a vapour separator box in the TBI model and then buy one if you are supposed to have one.
I replaced mine 3 months ago and have had no fuel problems since.
Ari
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Oct 30, 2011 9:15:11 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
As far as I am aware all Niva`s should have a separator tank. I also have a "T" piece of a kind in mine and if the tank is full and it is parked in the sun it will force petrol up the pipes and will appear above the petrol filler cap, accompanied by petrol smells inside. You need to have a tank big enough to carry the volume of petrol as it expands with the heat. I have even seen mine overflowing under the car port which does not get much sun.
Ronnie
|
|
spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by spikes on Oct 30, 2011 10:25:17 GMT 2
Nikki
The 1.7i definitely has a tank. It seems that Nikita does not have one due to "modifications" when parts were not available. It is a necessary part.
Spikes
|
|
|
Post by marius on Oct 30, 2011 10:25:18 GMT 2
I am convinced that you actually do need a vapour box but the plastic connectors on the original box is not very well made and can easily snap off. The box itself is also prone to crack.
Marius
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Oct 30, 2011 11:51:21 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I agree the box is essential, however I also agree the quality is crap.
Ronnie
|
|
spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by spikes on Oct 30, 2011 12:05:01 GMT 2
@ari, Is the new separator box of better quality than the original? Not that it could have been all that bad... Ronnie had the NIVA for a good few years. regards Spikes
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Oct 30, 2011 12:19:00 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
It will be interesting to see if the separator boxes are of better quality. I hope so.
Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Oct 30, 2011 13:18:02 GMT 2
Dont know, mine never had one. Its a black box with 3 pipe attachment places.
Ari
|
|
spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by spikes on Oct 30, 2011 13:28:39 GMT 2
Mine is grey. Also with the three connectors for pipes At present the repairs that I made in June 2010 are still holding Cheers Spikes
|
|
|
Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Oct 30, 2011 14:14:04 GMT 2
Hi All
It shouldnt matter if its brittle etc, you dont fiddle there every weekend, or everyday in the Retired Ronnie's case.
Ari
|
|
spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by spikes on Oct 30, 2011 14:19:23 GMT 2
Hi All It shouldnt matter if its brittle etc, you dont fiddle there every weekend, or everyday in the Retired Ronnie's case. Ari ;D
|
|