ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Aug 26, 2012 7:29:33 GMT 2
at last, after 1,5 years i started to work on the 1.9 TD engine. Yesterday i started with dismanteling the donor engine. That's a 1.9d engine i took from a donor niva diesel. I need the engine mountings, flywheel, sump, (partly) oil pump and some other stuff from it. Pics: Both engines: at the left the 1.9d, at the right the TD (from a Citroën xantia 1.9TD intercooler) What this conversion is al about: The Niva diesel sump: The oil pump had to be taken a part. The TD filter and pipe didn't fit in the new sump. i could have replaced the pump itself, but i want to keep the TD pump because it's a little bit larger The Niva pipe and filter The pipe and filter from the TD engine: Today i will rebuild the right engine mount because it's not fitting. The return oil pipe from the turbo get's in the way. Today i will also put the sump on the TD engine.
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Aug 26, 2012 8:15:11 GMT 2
Great news indeed, Jan.
I wish you well with the conversion and will be keeping a close watch on this thread
Spikes
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Post by ronnie on Aug 26, 2012 8:51:52 GMT 2
Hi Jan I am a big fan of Turbo Diesel motors . Ronnie
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dimitris
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Post by dimitris on Aug 26, 2012 9:14:27 GMT 2
Good morning Jan I wish you to have a pleasant surprise by the result of the conversion.
Because I do not have any experience of driving a diesel car and especially diesel Niva, please tell me what is the difference between petrol and diesel Niva in off-road use? I mean about the performance and not fuel consumption etc.
Cheers, Dimitris
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2012 9:21:16 GMT 2
Glad to see you working on the niva again
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Post by ronnie on Aug 26, 2012 11:39:18 GMT 2
Hi Dimitris
I have no experience of a diesel Niva but the nice thing about a diesel for off road is having so much torque at very low revolutions.
Ronnie
PS and the low fuel consumption.
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dimitris
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Post by dimitris on Aug 26, 2012 12:51:47 GMT 2
Hi Dimitris I have no experience of a diesel Niva but the nice thing about a diesel for off road is having so much torque at very low revolutions. Ronnie PS and the low fuel consumption. Hi Ronnie I've heard about it, but as I wrote I have not experience. For this reason I ask from Jan to make the comparison between petrol and diesel Niva. Do these actually have significant difference?
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lincslada
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Post by lincslada on Aug 26, 2012 15:19:41 GMT 2
Excellent project Jan look forward to the finished results..
Cheers Gav
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Post by Charles on Aug 26, 2012 17:02:57 GMT 2
Finally!! Jan I think this is going to be a very interesting thread.
Charles
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oldschool
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Post by oldschool on Aug 26, 2012 18:59:56 GMT 2
Hi Jan I think the TD is a super idea...will you be keeping the cooler or not, if so will it be a front or top mount cooler...Ive checked my niva and since having read up and researched turbo builds ALOT i would recomend to do a frontal cooler mount due to bigger and more suffucient surface area!(theres enough spece to smuggle a dead cow behind the radiotor grill for a very nice and large coole)the bigger the better! Also looks like a very small turbo and would imagine that thing to be spooled up completely at no more than 1200-1500 rpm for full boost..ideal for low end torque! looks very interesting and like the idea of making and finding new and interesting ways to improve on the original design... my point is that you sir...you are a pioneer! We salute you!
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Aug 27, 2012 7:00:21 GMT 2
some answers to your questions: Dimitris, i'm not converting petrol to diesel, i'm converting 1.9D to 1.9TD. My Niva has always been a diesel. My experience with Niva diesel offroad is indeed the pleassure of torque at very low revs (1000 - 1500 revs). The wheels don't spin as much as with a petrol Niva. Less spinning is more traction. In fact, the 1.9D without turbo is ideal forr offroading, but i mis power in everyday use. 64 hp is not a whole lot As in direct comparison petrol/diesel: a 17i is a great improvement in comparison with a 1600. It pulls a lot more timing advance on low revs and has a better compression ratio. If one learns to drive a 1700 injection on low revs (in first or second low gears) the ecu will generate more advance and supply more fuel in an attempt to raise the revs. That way the 17i is surprisingly strong offroad. But a diesel engine will always be stronger at low revs. Its indeed a very small turbo and i've chosen it for its size. The specs of this engine tell me that max torque (200Nm) is supplied at 1900 revs. In practise that will be +- 2100 revs. The intercooler will be top mounted. There is no room in my diesel engine bay to have it front mounted. I have a completely different setup then a 1600 or 17i. Completely different radiator and 2 cooling fans mounted between the grille and the radiator. I cant' put the radiator further to the back because there's only 3-4 cm room between the rad and the engine. The idea (for now) is to use 2 Renault 5 GT turbo intercoolers. They are small and thick and i hope they will cool enough. If not, i will put a small electric fan on them. If that's not enough, i will cool the ic's with water. When al goes well in a later stage i'll increese turbo pressure (from stock 0,8 bar to 1,1 bar) and will adjust the fuel pump. The idea behind all this is not to generate more power, but to improve torque at low and middle range revs. In the end i would like 240-250 Nm of torque at 2000 revs. Power ofcourse will be increased also because that's a physical law. I think i will end up with +- 110 hp. Il'l just have to see if the drive train is up to this. BTW: about building engines: we tested the Clio yesterday: 0-100 km/h in 7,3 seconds ;D with a passenger in it. Too bad i have to shift to 3rd gear. If it could make the 100 in second time would be much better. But i'm happy with it ;D back to Niva : this will not be a 2 week project. This build will cost me (a lot of) money and i can't pull the euro's of my back I think it will cost me close to or just over a 1000 euro's. It's not only the engine, but also a lot of extra stuff: - 2 temperature sensors for the ic's - a boost gauge - the ic's themselves - a cilinder head overhaull (preventive) - new timing belt kit - stronger clutch up to 300Nm (yet to be found) - possible a boost controller (must be mechanical, this engine has no ecu) - (expensive) tubing for aircleaner/turbo/ic's - etc etc and some time consuming stuff: -new home made exhaust - adapter for the turbo (engine come's from a fwd car and the flange must be in a different angle in order to fit) - fiiting the ic's and possible customizing the hood - etc etc
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Aug 27, 2012 7:44:07 GMT 2
Hi Jan,
Thanks for more detail on you TD engine. You will make a success of it.
Spikes
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dimitris
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Post by dimitris on Aug 27, 2012 8:22:10 GMT 2
Good morning Jan.Thank you for your reply.
I know that your niva is a Diesel. I asked from you to do the comparison petrol / diesel because there you have the experience from your niva and the nivas of your group. This is a very interesting thread. Good luck friend.
Cheers Dimitris
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Aug 27, 2012 17:47:01 GMT 2
This morning my wife started cleaning, so i thought i'd help her So i cleaned the TD ;D , since it was packed in oil and grease due to a worn sealing. ofcourse the sealing will be replaced. I will also replace the other (flywheel) side and some other gaskets/seals. Today i ordered a bunch of parts: - timing belt + tensioner and idler - waterpump - gaskets - sealings - glow plugs this sets me back a few 100 euro's this evening i will make a tool to hold the timing belt tensioner spring in place. I know from experience that when you take the tensioner away the spring will jump out and it's so strong that it's almost impossible to put it back in place.
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Aug 27, 2012 19:18:13 GMT 2
the tool was easy to make Took me 10 minutes to figure it out and 5 minutes to make it. slide it between the spring holder and the tensioner and bolt it in 2 existing holes. now, the tensioner can be removed tadaaaa!
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Post by Charles on Aug 27, 2012 19:25:49 GMT 2
I would love one of those engines in my Niva. With a little bit more boost.
Charles
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Aug 27, 2012 19:32:21 GMT 2
The old Peugeot 404 diesel engine would be my diesel option for my use of the NIVA with a Donaldson air cleaner pre-cleaner setup
Spikes
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Post by ronnie on Aug 27, 2012 20:50:30 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
I drove one of them decades ago and the only way to get any speed was to get the passenger to get out and push ;D ;D ;D
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on Aug 27, 2012 21:04:21 GMT 2
A Renault 1.9TD is a fantastic engines. The new ones revs up like a car and pulls like a train.
charles
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oldschool
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Post by oldschool on Aug 27, 2012 23:43:54 GMT 2
Hi Jan Glad to hear the build coming along pretty good...I know the feeling of these builds that end up in a rather big money pit, but can honestly say its worth every penny once you cruise out a steep obstacle only because of the boost in your lada...my happiness came when a new BMW M3 (4litre V8)had to limit almost every gear in M mode and still be lacking about three car lengths... Regarding youre clutch issue...getting the right clutch is always difficuilt specially with higher horsepower engines builds in production engine gearbox setup.. As you most probably know theres always the copper puck clutch option which holds a tremendous amount of torque but also requires the use of a hydraulic assisted human leg movement to just to get to the floor and becomes a pain in the behind to drive daily... I dont know if this may work in your setup or gearbox bellhousing, but recently saw on my mazda forum that a guy with very high horsepower rating couldnt find a nice drivable clutch so he used two stock standard clutch plates behind each other only to use a machined and balanced plate inbetween call it an extra flywheel if you wil with a stock pressure plate at the back. What this in theory meant is that he had twice the amount of surface area for clutch plate to bind or grip on before slippage could occur, since both plates will bind on each side giving you four instead of two surface areas? ;D This to me was ingenious but astonishingly brilliant and relatively low cost since stock aftermarket clutches are not that expensive thesedays, but the moment you mention high horsepower or custom you seem to be obliged to leave either your wife or 4x4 as compensation thereof.. Sorry for the long post but hope you can make some use of it!
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Sept 1, 2012 6:20:54 GMT 2
been working hard, all seals and gaskets are replaced. The sump is in position, oil pump is adjusted, the engine mountings are in place. The head gasket is replaced just out of precaution. There was no need to, because it was a metal gasket but i didn't know that.
While i'm waiting for parts i will try to find the time to manufacture an adapter for the turbo downpipe. Next week following parts will arrive from France: - timing belt kit - glow plugs - rocker cover gasket
as for the clutch: i don't have the room for a double clutch, so for now i'll settle for a stock (new) Valeo clutch kit. As long as turbo pressure is stock it will take the beating. The new Niva M has a 220 mm clutch instead of 200 mm, i will look into that later. I don't know if the splines are the same (word is that Niva M has the Chevy Niva gear box) or that it will fit on my flywheel. I will ask Pavel to investigate when time comes.
The turbo itself has a little bit of play. I don't have a lot of experience with those things, so i will take it to an expert to have a look at it. This must be done before the engine is build in. Later it will be very difficult to remove the turbo from the engine.
I want to buy a new starter and alterantor too for this engine, but those 2 things are pretty expensive. I will have to wait and see if that's financialy possible. If the turbo has to be overhauled i will most certainly use the old ones
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Sept 1, 2012 6:41:40 GMT 2
Hi Jan Thanks for the update. It must be nice to be building/working on your own Lada Spikes
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 10:42:16 GMT 2
Sounds like you are making good progress. At this rate it won't be long till its finished
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Sept 10, 2012 6:54:16 GMT 2
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Sept 10, 2012 7:08:52 GMT 2
You must be getting withdrawal systems being without your NIVA so long:-) Looking impressive Jan!
:-)
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Sept 10, 2012 7:42:01 GMT 2
Spikes, i can still use my Niva. The original diesel engine is still in it. The specific diesel parts (sump etc) came from a spare Niva diesel engine
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Sept 10, 2012 7:49:16 GMT 2
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Post by Charles on Sept 10, 2012 19:27:12 GMT 2
When mounted in the niva do you use the front engine mounting? also on that engine is cylinder number 1 pulley side or flywheel side?
Charles
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Sept 11, 2012 5:45:12 GMT 2
only the left and right engine mountings are used. Cylinder #1 is the pulley side
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on May 8, 2013 5:36:44 GMT 2
been working hard the last few days Progress so far: - the old engine is out - the new engine is in what this is all about: left to do: - mount the transfer case and prop shafts - mount the radiator and tubing - find/buy/fabricate new hoses for snorkel/air cleaner/turbo - fabricate a new down pipe - cleaning up electric wiring - fix a brake line that got damaged with taking the old engine out or putting the new one in. the new clutch kit: i chose a Sachs clutch kit because it's the best you can get for decent money when you're on a budget. now: because fabricating the new exhaust and inlet is a big job and there's no return as soon as you start with it i chose to start the engine without them. I did that because i did some work on the oil pump. A TD has a larger pump then a D and i wanted to keep that. It didn't fit in the sump so some adjustments had to be made. (see previous posts) Because i was not very sure that it would build up oil pressure i hooked up the electrics and engeged the start motor. i didn't put in the fuel lines at this stage because i wanted the engine to build up oil pressure before firing up. After a long time starting the pressure was there It took a long time because everyting was empty: oil filter, turbo pipes, pipes to the piston jets etc. Then i mounted the fuel lines and started the engine. it fired wright up I left it running for 1 or 2 seconds and then shutted it down. There's no water in in yet. But: IT'S ALIVE!
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