fangsingh
Full Niva Petrol Head
Fiat Berlinetta 8V 1954
Posts: 162
Location: Kwazulu-Natal
Town: Queensburgh
Registered: Mar 6, 2011 22:06:12 GMT 2
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Post by fangsingh on Apr 13, 2012 23:04:15 GMT 2
Thanks Danie
Is the pipe straight, or is it in a bit of an angle?
Dheer
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Post by danie on Apr 14, 2012 6:05:34 GMT 2
Hi Dheer
The pipe has a slight angle, otherwise it would touch the sump.
I hope to remove the pipe today.
Danie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Apr 14, 2012 6:58:38 GMT 2
Hi Danie, the angle is puzzling...how does the dipstick bend and measure? or does the dstick bypass somehow? Your parcel must be a record!! 6 days. What does Pavel say
regards
spikes
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Post by danie on Apr 14, 2012 19:33:57 GMT 2
Hi Spikes / Dheer Spikes, the dipstick does bend, and it measures the level of the oil which pushes up inside the pipe. There are only two holes inside the separator. 1. The hole at the center - for the long bolt at the center. 2. The hole for the drain pipe / dipstick - at the right of this pic: Dheer, the separator pipe is part of the separator "cup", and can not be removed - unless it gets broken off by brute force. The pipe has a "shoulder at the inside (bottom) of the "cup" and a shoulder at the outside of the "cup" The outer shoulder can be seen an the next pic, and the inner shoulder can be seen at the pic above: I think the separator pipes gets broken off by people who do not know how to remove the pipe - like when the pipes have to be removed for cylinder sleeve re-boring. To remove the pipe / "cup"combination, two nuts have to be tightened together at the top of the long bolt, and then the long bolt has to be unscrewed: The separator pipe from the nagged engine has now been installed at my Lada's original engine: I would advice you rather to contact Vents or Chris Swales for a pipe combination. To fabricate a pipe might be too risky - the pipe could come loose and drop into the sump. Danie Danie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Apr 14, 2012 19:45:47 GMT 2
Hi Danie if the "pipe" is solid to the cup what is the function of the original "mystery" part? A bit of insurance from the designers? Thanks for taking the trouble to take the pictures! regards Spikes
PS like the new moticon!!
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Post by Charles on Apr 14, 2012 20:52:07 GMT 2
Danie I can see that gedore has spripped a couple of engines.
Charles
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Post by danie on Apr 15, 2012 7:56:28 GMT 2
Hi Danie if the "pipe" is solid to the cup what is the function of the original "mystery" part? A bit of insurance from the designers? regards Spikes PS like the new moticon!! Hi Spikes On the Fiat engines the "mystery part" comes welded to the pipe , and unlike the Lada pipes, the pipes on the Fiat engines only gets pushed into a hole at the engine block. So on the Fiat engines, the welded "mystery part" is the only "ïinsurance" that the pipes do not come loose, and drop to the sump. On the Lada engine I think the only purpose of the "mystery part" is to ensure that the pipe does not eventually get wiggled loose by the Dipstick . When the Dipstick gets pushed down into the pipe, and the bottom of the Dipstick reaches the bend at the pipe, the dipstick becomes under stress, and will force the pipe sideways. For this reason I think the mystery part on Lada engines only ensures that the pipe always stays firmly in place, and does not eventually wiggle loose where it connects to the cup. The bottom of the dipstick reaches the bend at the pipe at this depth - almost at the same time when when the plastic shoulder at the Dipstick reaches the pipe on top of the Separator Cover: Danie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Apr 15, 2012 8:02:11 GMT 2
Hi Danie
Thanks again for the information. I assume the pipe is missing from my engine as well as I can not recall any resistance when pushing the dipstick back.
Regards
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Apr 15, 2012 8:15:43 GMT 2
Hi Danie I did this test now. Inserted dipstick and let drop freely into the dipstick pipe. It stopped with about 1.5cm t0 2cm clearance between the top of the dipstick pipe and the bottom of the rubber shroud below the finger hold on the dipstick. Then there is very slight resistance to slide the dstick down and home.
Regards
Spikes
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Post by danie on Apr 15, 2012 8:17:09 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
The dipstick actually bends a lot easier than one thinks, and when the pipe is lubricated by oil I think the dipstick will bend before one realize that it has indeed started bending.
At the moment the pipe which has just been installed to my Lada engine is not lubricated at all - and still, I do have to concentrate to feel at which depth the dipstick starts bending.
Danie
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Post by marius on Apr 15, 2012 8:26:02 GMT 2
I thinks the kink is to ensure that the dipstick stays in place.
Marius
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Post by danie on Apr 15, 2012 8:44:01 GMT 2
Hi Danie I did this test now. Inserted dipstick and let drop freely into the dipstick pipe. It stopped with about 1.5cm t0 2cm clearance between the top of the dipstick pipe and the bottom of the rubber shroud . Regards Spikes Hi Spikes Are you sure the "1.5 cm to 2 cm"is not suppose to be 1.5 to 2 MM ? When I have taken the pic above, the dipstick "stopped" (touched actually) the pipe with a clearance between 1.5 to 2 mm. Danie
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fangsingh
Full Niva Petrol Head
Fiat Berlinetta 8V 1954
Posts: 162
Location: Kwazulu-Natal
Town: Queensburgh
Registered: Mar 6, 2011 22:06:12 GMT 2
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Post by fangsingh on Apr 16, 2012 16:33:44 GMT 2
Hi Danie Thank you for showing me how to get the separator out of the block. Also thanks for all the pics and info on the separator. Danie I want to check if a hydraulic company (like FHS Hydraulics) could attach a tube to the oil separator for me. If possible, could I have the length of the tube, from underneath the oil separator itself. I see you have two bends, if I'm correct. So if you could give me the mesurement from the oil separator to the first bend, then from that bend to the second bend, that would be very helpful. Not forgetting the wall thickness of the tube. Armed with these mesurements, I will then go to one of these hydraulic places, and get them to put it together for me. Dheer
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Apr 16, 2012 18:53:26 GMT 2
Hi Dheer If you look at the picture (2 up) the top bend seems quite severe. More so than in the picture above. It may be the angle at which the pics were taken.
Spikes
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Apr 16, 2012 18:55:43 GMT 2
Hi Dheer If you look at the picture (2 up) the top bend seems quite severe. More so than in the picture above. It may be the angle at which the pics were taken. It may also be the bottom section is bent upwards towards the camera in the last pic. The more I look at it, that seem to be the case.
Spikes
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Post by danie on Apr 16, 2012 20:24:41 GMT 2
Hi Dheer Correct, the pipe only has two bends: 1. From the lowest point of the separator to the 1st bend = 2.5cm. 2. From the lowest point of the separator to the 2nd bend = 15cm. Total length of the pipe from the lowest point of the separator = 26 cm. Pipe OD = 16 mm. When I took this pic, the bottom end of the pipe was sloping upwards towards the camera: I think the hydraulic guys should rather use a 16mm pipe with a thin wall thickness - this should make it easier to bend the pipe afterwards - if needed. Danie
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fangsingh
Full Niva Petrol Head
Fiat Berlinetta 8V 1954
Posts: 162
Location: Kwazulu-Natal
Town: Queensburgh
Registered: Mar 6, 2011 22:06:12 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
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Post by fangsingh on Apr 16, 2012 21:02:09 GMT 2
Thanks for helping out Spikes!
Dheer
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fangsingh
Full Niva Petrol Head
Fiat Berlinetta 8V 1954
Posts: 162
Location: Kwazulu-Natal
Town: Queensburgh
Registered: Mar 6, 2011 22:06:12 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
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Post by fangsingh on Apr 16, 2012 21:15:00 GMT 2
Thanks Danie, you've given me everything that I need to get the pipe made. I'll let you know where it goes from here.
Thanks again for your quick response!
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Apr 17, 2012 8:19:44 GMT 2
Hi Danie Thanks for the clarification of the separator bottom pipe! Any engineering shop worth their name will be able to make up the pipe with the pictures and drawings here. I agree with the thin wall pipe. To bend it without folding it flat... 1 use a spring insert(difficult to get) 2 Rubber or silicon hose that fits inside the pipe 3 Fill tightly with sand. (just make sure you get all the sand out before assembly)
Regards
Spikes
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Post by Charles on Apr 17, 2012 18:44:39 GMT 2
Some of the big shops might have a mandrel bender that size.
Charles
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fangsingh
Full Niva Petrol Head
Fiat Berlinetta 8V 1954
Posts: 162
Location: Kwazulu-Natal
Town: Queensburgh
Registered: Mar 6, 2011 22:06:12 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
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Post by fangsingh on May 3, 2012 0:00:07 GMT 2
Hey guys I tried building the tube for the oil seperator, but I could not get a tube that met the specifications. So I decided to buy the oil seperator. This is the oil seperator that I tried to fabricate next to the new one. So that part of it is sorted. Thanks for all of you guys help. This is a pic of the tool that was made out of a broom handle, to align the clutch plate. Will keep you guys posted. Dheer
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Post by danie on May 3, 2012 6:36:32 GMT 2
Hi Dheer
It might make sense to replace all 5 Welsh Plugs on your engine. The one on the right (2nd last pic) looks a bit rusted at the top - so it might be badly rusted at the inside.
Don't forget about the one at the rear of the engine block. If it does not get replaced now, and it starts leaking in the near future, you will have to pull the engine again...
Th diameter of the Welsh Plugs are 40 mm. Midas Moore Road sells it for R8.00 each - Autozone Pinetown sells it for R16.00 each.
Danie
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Post by ronnie on May 3, 2012 8:03:30 GMT 2
Hi Danie
It is false economy not to replace the welch plugs when the motor is out. It is easy when the motor is out and difficult / impossible once all is assembled.
Ronnie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on May 3, 2012 11:13:00 GMT 2
Hi Dheer I fully agree with Ronnie and Danie... replace all those plugs now while the engine is Here is a guide on getting them out and new ones in: go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoWelshPlugs1.htmRegards Spikes
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Post by Charles on May 3, 2012 18:10:52 GMT 2
I agree with replacing the welsh plugs. I had to replace one on the side in place. Almost impossible.
Charles
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fangsingh
Full Niva Petrol Head
Fiat Berlinetta 8V 1954
Posts: 162
Location: Kwazulu-Natal
Town: Queensburgh
Registered: Mar 6, 2011 22:06:12 GMT 2
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Post by fangsingh on May 3, 2012 21:34:41 GMT 2
Thanks Guys, I definitly will change all welsh plugs. When changing these plugs, will I have to just tap them in, or must I coat them with a solution like Permatex No. 3, used in the link you gave me Spikes? If so, what must I use?
Thanks again.
Dheer
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spikes
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Post by spikes on May 4, 2012 7:54:21 GMT 2
Hi Dheer
On the three occasions that I replaced Welch plugs, the fit to the hole was quite tight, so I did not use any sealant. I am sure Charles will respond as well. Using sealant won't do any harm as long as it is not overdone and you get sealant into the gallery.
Spikes
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Post by ronnie on May 4, 2012 8:23:24 GMT 2
Hi Dheer
If you use sealer lightly smear the side of the welch plug so when you put it in the excess is pushed to the outside. You will always find a socket the correct size to drive them in.
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on May 4, 2012 10:16:48 GMT 2
I always use Loctite Shellac on welsh plugs and all paper gaskets. Fantastic stuff.
Charles
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Post by danie on May 4, 2012 18:15:01 GMT 2
Hi Dheer
If you've got a good quality "Gasket Maker" silicone in your possession - like Bostic's "Super Gasket Maker" , there is no need to buy any other fancy stuff.
Just make sure all rust have been removed fron the Welsh Plug hole, and apply a very thin layer of the Gasket Maker stuff - you will have no leaks. That stuff can handle a temperature of more than 300 deg Celsius.
Danie
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