|
Post by ronnie on Jun 7, 2012 22:16:30 GMT 2
Hi Charles / Ruan
It is very wrong to call Lada Centurion`s "thermostat" a THERMOSTAT. It is nothing more than a "T" piece with a restriction in the bypass connection. It does nothing to control the temp and will destroy the motor eventually due to running cold all the time.
Ronnie
|
|
Roons
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 583
Registered: Mar 12, 2012 22:50:37 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Roons on Jun 7, 2012 22:33:55 GMT 2
Ronnie if i understand correctly it has a inline thermostat in the pipe going to the radiator. Ari it goes to the radiator (in)/side. I wil test it and see what happens. If it is crap i simply take it off and put the lada stuff back on.
|
|
Roons
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 583
Registered: Mar 12, 2012 22:50:37 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Roons on Jun 7, 2012 22:40:39 GMT 2
Charles. I do steel work for a living. Is jan a cowboy? I dont always understand him. Ja that is jans (sa mod)
|
|
Roons
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 583
Registered: Mar 12, 2012 22:50:37 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Roons on Jun 7, 2012 23:14:56 GMT 2
Jan did not explain to me how his mod works. I have seen some turbo (converted) cars that do this thing to keep the motor cooler. And a bmw inline thermostat also is a thing often used in engine conversions. So i dont know if i am doing the same thing as jan. I am going to put the cowling on and see how it goes. If it gets hot offroad i wil play around with this plan. Thanks Charles i use a mig welder so its not much of a skill. Ruan
|
|
|
Post by danie on Jun 8, 2012 6:45:08 GMT 2
Ronnie if i understand correctly it has a inline thermostat in the pipe going to the radiator. Ari it goes to the radiator (in)/side. I wil test it and see what happens. If it is crap i simply take it off and put the lada stuff back on. As long as Jan's mod include an in-line thermostat, it should be fine. Please let us know how it works - it might indeed be an improvement. Danie
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Jun 8, 2012 8:48:10 GMT 2
Hi Ruan and Danie.
If the Thermostat is in the hose to the radiator the thermostat needs a hole in it to allow the hot water to flow and trigger the Thermostat. Perhaps this is similar to the system described long ago on the Forum which I tried but I preferred the original thermostat. It will be interesting to see the results you get. What I think of Centurion Lada is detailed in Service good or bad, and should be read before entrusting any vehicle to him.
Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Jun 8, 2012 8:52:28 GMT 2
Hi Ruan
One thing I should have mentioned, I was running the original fan with 2 electric fans in front of the radiator controlled by a thermo switch. Even on a hot Durban day crawling in traffic with the air con on full the Niva system coped fine.
Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by marius on Jun 8, 2012 8:58:03 GMT 2
I can add here that it is quite important for a car to run at optimum temperature. Running to cold or to hot will cause issues in the long run.
Marius
|
|
Roons
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 583
Registered: Mar 12, 2012 22:50:37 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Roons on Jun 8, 2012 9:34:00 GMT 2
Ronnie. I have that setup with the two fans on my injection niva. Works well. My carb model i realy dont want electric stuff on. I am installing a crank handle and so with a flat battery far from home say in deep sand it must stil work. I want it tractor style if it makes sence.
|
|
spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by spikes on Jun 9, 2012 11:43:48 GMT 2
Moved th Crank handle posts to the ew hread in "General"
Spikes
|
|
|
Post by danie on Jun 9, 2012 13:36:19 GMT 2
Hi Ruan Ruan, the later models Nivas (not imported to South Africa) came with two electric fans, and I believe the Russians has made this changes for a very good reason - to eliminate overheating problems. A cowl will make a difference on your Lada, but the Lada cowl does not cover the complete radiator, and will not be a complete solution. In fact, I think you might be wasting a lot of money by importing all cowl components. I believe many overheating problems (slow traffic or offroad conditions in Low Range) are partly caused by the fact that hot water, coming from the Intake Manifold, gets sucked into the rear end off the waterpump all the time ,and gets mixed with the cooled water which comes from the Radiator. So due to the design of the cooling system , cooled water, which comes from the Radiator, gets heated up - even before it enters the engine block !The initial cooling mod on my Lada gas been discussed at the "Possible Cooling Mod" thread at this forum, and during initial tests I discovered some very positive results. In fact, during the initial tests I have also removed my in-line (Peugeot) thermostat - and discovered that, while the thermostat was not in position, the engine was running way to cold ! But since that discussion, I have done further modification, to ensure that the hot water from the cylinder head / Intake Manifold does not mix with the cooled water from the radiator: The hole at the rear of the Waterpump (where hot water from the Intake Manifold / Cylinder Head gets sucked in at all times when the engine is running) has been sealed: A hose between the hot water outlet barb at the Intake Manifold, and the mail outlet at the Cylinder Head has been installed . (The shiny stainless steel hose barb at the right side of the pic has been fabricated to be linked with the outlet at the rear of the cylinder Head, which feeds the Heater inside the cabin) : For the time being , I have installed two valves at the rear of the engine block for testing purposes. The flow to the Heater inside the cabin will be controlled by the valve which can be seen at the top of this pic, and should there be any need for further engine cooling, (should the hose link which can be seen at the 2nd pic not be sufficient) the valve at the bottom (which feeds the shiny stainless steel barb at the right (second pic) could also been opened: As mentioned, the initial tests with my original modification seemed to work very well - but I believe more test have to be done to make sure that the engine will not be running too cold . A fully functional, in-line Thermostat (with holes and all) has been installed during the initial tests, and at the time it worked very well. Long story, but I also believe that the Lada cooling system is very "marginal" - therefore my modification. Danie
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Jun 9, 2012 15:29:49 GMT 2
Hi Danie
I have tried the modification with the thermostat in the top hose and a pipe to take the heat from the back of the block to the front and found no real advantage. I reverted to the original thermostat and much prefer this set up. I also agree the cooling system is probably marginal for our climate, though in my experience it is fine if looked after. I have run in 50deg ambient in low range for hours with the air con on and had no problems. I look forward to your feed back when you start to use your mod.
Ronnie
|
|
Roons
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 583
Registered: Mar 12, 2012 22:50:37 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Roons on Jun 9, 2012 19:36:53 GMT 2
Danie. U make alot of sence there. I am going to copy your setup to try and keep my lada e fan free. I made a cowling today. Ari s photos made it possible. Wil post a pic soon. Regards Ruan
|
|
Roons
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 583
Registered: Mar 12, 2012 22:50:37 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Roons on Jun 9, 2012 19:57:05 GMT 2
Not my best job ever. Attachments:
|
|
Roons
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 583
Registered: Mar 12, 2012 22:50:37 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Roons on Jun 9, 2012 20:00:15 GMT 2
Going to use a door rubber for a seal.
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Jun 9, 2012 20:04:42 GMT 2
Nice job.
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Jun 10, 2012 9:04:42 GMT 2
Hi Danie I have been thinking about your comments that the water is heating up the incoming water from the radiator before it has done any cooling work. I think this is flawed as the motor will be producing the same heat output no matter what the temp is of the returning water from the radiator. It is the job of the thermostat to control the temperature. So in my opinion the end result will be the same. the thermostat will do the same controlling ,no matter what temp of water the engine is producing. If the cooling system is marginal, and the motor is producing the same temperature load the cooling will be the same no matter what you do, Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by danie on Jun 10, 2012 9:07:19 GMT 2
Danie. U make alot of sence there. I am going to copy your setup to try and keep my lada e fan free. I made a cowling today. Ari s photos made it possible. Wil post a pic soon. Regards Ruan Hi Ruan My modification includes a Peugeot 404 Thermostat, which gets installed inside the the top radiator hose. The Thermostat is extremely important, and two or three small holes needs to be drilled at the Thermostat outer housing, to cause a small "leak". The small holes are extremely important - otherwise the heated water takes too long to reach the Thermostat, and the engine will overheat. More info about my original mod. , including the position of the in line Thermostat can be found here: www.locsa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=technical&action=display&thread=22The Peugeot 404 Thermostats fits perfectly inside the existing Lada radiator hose, but these thermostats have became extremely rare locally. Should you not be able to find one, you could either do a modification on another brand of Thermostat, or you could import a Peugeot 404 one at e.Bay: Danie
|
|
|
Post by danie on Jun 10, 2012 11:07:50 GMT 2
Hi Ruan
If you are interested in a Peugeot thermostat, and prepared to share shipment costs, just let me know. I am going to order a spare one for myself from the UK anyway.
Danie
|
|
Roons
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 583
Registered: Mar 12, 2012 22:50:37 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Roons on Jun 10, 2012 11:24:07 GMT 2
Ronnie. My 3l 24v hilux has a vw 16v radiator same size as the lada one. It never gets hot no matter what u do. Thats why i think there is more to be had from the lada unit.
|
|
|
Post by danie on Jun 10, 2012 12:30:23 GMT 2
Hi Ruan
You are on the right track - it is common sense that the Lada cooling system is "marginal". And I am more than convinced that there are ways and means to make a difference.
Hi Ronnie
I will only regard my statement as "flawed", once I have seen the final results myself . ;D
Danie
|
|
Roons
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 583
Registered: Mar 12, 2012 22:50:37 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Roons on Jun 10, 2012 12:37:46 GMT 2
Danie. Thanks i wil take a thermostat and share shipment with u.
|
|
|
Post by danie on Jun 10, 2012 19:41:45 GMT 2
Hi Ruan
Since my offer I have send an inquiry to the seller at e.Bay. They have already responded, and apparently there are different thermostat sizes and specs for different Peugeot models.
I hope to find thermostats with similar specs than the one in my possession, and will let you know as soon as the the seller at e.Bay has responded again.
For the time being I have removed the e.Bay link at one of my previous posts.
Danie
|
|
Roons
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 583
Registered: Mar 12, 2012 22:50:37 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Roons on Jun 10, 2012 19:52:30 GMT 2
Thanks Danie.
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Jun 10, 2012 20:09:08 GMT 2
When I had a thermostat in the top pipe I used one from a Citroen. Can not remember the part number. I looked in a parts catalog for a inline thermostat, that one worked very well.
Charles
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Jun 10, 2012 20:24:31 GMT 2
I used a Moto part 1324m.
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Jun 10, 2012 21:57:20 GMT 2
Hi Danie I await your results Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Jun 10, 2012 22:01:16 GMT 2
Hi Ruan
As I have already said I personally have had no overheating problems. At one time I was not happy with where the temp gauge sat but according to Ventz it was exactly correct.
Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Jun 10, 2012 22:10:44 GMT 2
I have a aftermarket temp gauge fitted aswell. My stock temp gauge shows just over 90 and the aftermarket gauge shows about 83. My aftermarket gauge takes the temp in the top hose just out of the engine.
Charles
|
|
Roons
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 583
Registered: Mar 12, 2012 22:50:37 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Roons on Jun 10, 2012 22:42:24 GMT 2
Thanks Charles Ronnie. I wil test my cowling and see if it works. Then i also need to test my radiator as the engine and pipes are vrot with rust. When i drained the coolant there was 2mm + of rust at the bottom of the bucket. Also the pipes are lined with that same stuff. How can i clean it? Ruan
|
|