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Post by ronnie on Jun 4, 2011 8:45:12 GMT 2
Hi Danie Like you my biggest restraint since I retired is Money. Times have changed Ronnie
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Post by danie on Jun 4, 2011 11:56:00 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie Fortunately everything is not all doom and gloom - tough times never last, and things will get back to normal again. During the past seven years we have spent more than R70 000 on air tickets alone - with that money I could obviously have modified my Lada perfectly - difflock at the rear axle and limited slip in front included . Nevertheless, I do not regret anything, and if I would have another chance to reconsider the choices of the past, I would not think twice to do exactly the same. As mentioned - tough times never last, tough people do . Danie
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Post by ronnie on Jun 4, 2011 12:51:41 GMT 2
Hi Danie
When I was working I was lucky and always had plenty of money. Now on a fixed pension it is different I said fixed but unfortunately the Rand Pound exchange rate has affected my British pension a lot. The main thing is I am happy and we manage.
Ronnie
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Ladaniva
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Post by Ladaniva on Jun 5, 2011 22:55:32 GMT 2
Hi Danie,
You will have a monster if you add a turbo or supercharger to a Fiat motor (I assume it will be a 2000cc Fiat motor)! Surely you will need the cast iron front diff for that. Just keep in mind (in general) that mating other brand motors to a Lada gearbox is not such a big deal annmore. That is why I think that the best transplant engine for a Lada is the 1600 16 valve Toyota motors. Reliable 90 to 140 kw from a small size 1600 with remarkable torque (espacially from the standard supercharged motor)! Every second workshop know which turbos works very well with these motors, and at low boost you do not even have to drop the compression ratio (the turbo adds a lot of torque at low revs - so the best of two worlds - good torque with a bulletproof high revving motor).
Lada Doctor really made my day by informing me about the cast iron front diff being available. I will definately order one from you during next year. Can one fit the internals of the aluminium diff into the cast iron diff casing?
I am so glad to know that we have an oil specialist on the forum that shares his knowledge with all. Not a lot of people know that by using the right oil you can actually put more torque through a gearbox/diff. I have seen tests where, by using real synthetic oil one can get 10% more reliable torque through a gearbox. This will obviously also help a lot to make the transmission components last a lot longer. I stumbled over a new additive on the market (not yet represented in SA) that significantly lowers the temperature of a gearbox or motor, without affecting the service pack in the oil. It also work very well on chain drives. The US airforce uses it nowadays on their helicopter engines to keep the engines running longer after the oil ran out so that the crew stands a better change of putting the chopper down safely. I will order some in the near future, if the packing size will still keep it afordable.
I finished the inlet manifold adaptor plate this weekend but can unfortunately not get the photos on my cell phone onto my computer (always could). As soon as I figured it out I will post it on this link. I am sure that will make a few mouths water (and hope it will inspire someone to fit throttle bodies to a Lada motor, or of course a supercharger or small turbo (not too small as I unfortnately did before).
I picked up quite a few nice tips on the forum, thank you all. Goodness gracious; I now understand how one can fit a V6 in a Lada and make the front diff last. I am realy impressed.
Regards,
Fanus
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Ladaniva
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Post by Ladaniva on Jun 5, 2011 23:40:13 GMT 2
Hi All, Here is a few photos hopefully showing the gasflowed head of my 1600 Lada and the adoptor plate to which I will weld the inlet and outlet manifolds. THe whole manifold will then be ceramic coated to keep temperatures in check. Regards, Fanus Attachments:
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Ladaniva
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Post by Ladaniva on Jun 5, 2011 23:53:13 GMT 2
Hi All, Here is another photo that shows the gas flowed inlet port and the swirled stainless steel valve. Clearly much more air going into the engine per cycle than the standard Lada 1600 motor. The engine will be supercharged too. I also had a copper cylinder head gasket fitted (o-ringed) to ensure that the head keep on sealing properly, even when realy boosting. Turbo Heads cc in Springs (Nico) did the final gas flowing of the head, fitted the valves, new stronger pistons and o-ringed the head. The Lada head got a good bolt pattern, which should keep the lot together (I plan to boost .6 bar max, if the Toyota 1600 supercharger can go there, which I very much doubt) Regards, Fanus Attachments:
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Post by danie on Jun 6, 2011 5:55:03 GMT 2
Hi Fanus
Thanks for the pics and info.
After some uncertainty just after I have bought the Fiat engine, I figured out that it is a 1608cc , 125 model. The deal included a Fiat gearbox and bellhousing as well.
The internals of the aluminum diffs do fit on the cast iron casings as well. I am not sure whether cast iron diffs are locally available yet. There are several pics of diffs which have been privately built on the web though.
Where did you get the stronger pistons from, and what is the brand name ?
I presume the copper cylinder head gasket has been custom made locally ?
Again, thanks for the info. I will really be great to get more news about the progress on your mod.
Regards
Danie
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Jun 6, 2011 17:42:31 GMT 2
Hi Fanus I would Love to see what you would do on the street drag scene with that kind of boost. "Eh, 1 times lightningly fast Lada for the Larney" as the local VW Golf brigade would report here
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Post by Charles on Jun 6, 2011 19:26:32 GMT 2
Very nicem I am jelous! Considering fitting nos someday. Cheap easy power. What maniflod you going to be using?
Charles
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Ladaniva
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Post by Ladaniva on Jun 7, 2011 1:12:02 GMT 2
Hi Danie, I can unfortunately not remember the brand of the pistons, but is not a forged piston. The guy that build/overhauled the engine for me used the specific pistons in other engines that he turbo'ed, including his own Toyota 1600 with a mean turbo ( one bar boost with a T3/T4 turbo). When the turbo spin up/spool well his bakkie simply starts to spin in second/third gear if he put foot. He actually have to fit a copper gasket and better bolts now to keep the head tight on the block (to prevent water leaking onto the plugs!), and the same pistons take that type of hammering. I will try and find the name, but they are generally availble from engine parts. I suggest however, if you can, rather go for forged pistons (the place that sells the Toyota replacement forged pistons for a reasonable price was out of stock at the time and was waiting for stock from overseas - it would have taken more than two months!). The best forged pistons in my opinion is Wiseco. I had these pistons in my hands, and it is simply a pice of automotive art (obviously a bit expensive but surely affordable). The copper gasket was made by the same guy that overhauled the engine (Nico, Turbo Heads cc in Springs). I actualy have two more that another guy made for me earlier, when I still planned to put the bigger turbo on my Lada. I am sure there will be guys in your part of the world that will also be able to make it. The trick is actually in how you heat it before fitting it. It is not critical to fit the copper gasket; the normal gasket should work for mild boost together with the Lada cooling mod, mentioned in this forum. I think the 1600 Fiat motor is a gem. I will not even bother to supercharge it. It is a newer generation motor than the Lada motor ("Fiat twincam engines tend to be oversquare in design, that is, big bore and short stroke.The 1608 cc is a perfectly square engine", but if you supercharge it it will most definately put a grin on your face. The cross-flow design and ability to rev very high make this an ideal motor to turbo-charge. No need to fit forged pistons if you keep the boost mild. (I got a brand new T3/T4 turbo for R1500.00 or to swop for your supercharger . In other words 100 free reving reliable kilowatts - that is what the Ford 3000cc engine gave years ago, if you were lucky!. Charles, A Lada engine with an ECU is well suited to nitrous only (the 1700 single throttle body version is perfect). Unfortunately a lot of people (wrongfully) do not regard nitrous as reliable. This is because it is often fitted by people that aproach modifications like the pro's in Durban: let us see what happens. It does not work like that. Also people very easily gets greedy with such easy power. The guy that is going to tune my Lada fitted nitrous injection to vehicles, that I know of, for more than ten years now. Why do you not fit it to your Lada - you only need one fogger for a Lada, and in this case an extra injector upstream is acceptable, because you only activate it at full throttle. Much better, cheaper to fit, cheaper to run and more reliable than a supercharger or turbocharger - especially a supercharger that you switch in and out. Regards, Fanus
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Post by danie on Jun 7, 2011 7:05:59 GMT 2
Hi Fanus
Many thanks for the info.
The info about the brand of pistons are not important at the moment. It is good to know that other suitable pistons are available at the local market though. This means that there are also other brands of standard (non forged) pistons available which can be used on Lada engines.
It will be very interesting to know what the total cost of a mod like yours will mounts to. So if you do keep record of all costs, I will appreciate more details in future.
It could also be very helpful to have Nico's (Turbo Heads CC) contact details available at this forum. There are members and visitors from abroad who often visit this website, and the weak value of our currency could make it very cheap for them, should they be interested in importing components from Nico.
Again, thanks for all the info.
Regards
Danie
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Post by Charles on Jun 7, 2011 16:14:19 GMT 2
Hi Fanus. Mine is carb. So if I fit it I will do it like the guys did in the 70's for extra power when towing their caravans. Will fit the bottle upside down. So you get the liquid and not ges. Tow and go they called it.
Charles
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Post by danie on Jun 7, 2011 18:37:09 GMT 2
Hi Fanus A year or two ago I have downloaded some pics about a steel rear axle - which has been modified to be used as a front diff. If I remember correctly, the owner is from Canada. If you would not be able to find one locally, any local engineering shop should be able to do a similar modification: An original front diff can be seen at the rear, and the steel axle which has been cut can be seen in front: Flanges have been machined to be welded to the steel diff: A rig has been built - I guess by using the aluminum diff as "mold" , to weld everything in place: The welded diff, still mounted to the rig: More brackets need to be welded to the diff , and I still need to find the pics elsewhere. Regards Danie
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simonallen
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Post by simonallen on Jun 7, 2011 23:30:49 GMT 2
above, you should be able to see, my final front diff mounts (it mounted on the anti roll bar, and the front cross member) and the dimensions to cut your rear axle casing to turn it onto the front one. The dimensions are also on that drawing for the two end flanges as well. When I'm at the garage next I'll take pictures of my new mounts which will bolt my steel casing to my engine as a standard (petrol) niva does
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simonallen
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Post by simonallen on Jun 7, 2011 23:34:27 GMT 2
one thing to note as well, when you cut the "short" side of the diff, you loose the splash plate that is in there. This means that oil will now come out of your breather pipe as it's thrown around by the crownwheel. I solved this by simply extending the breather into the top of the engine bay. Also, although the steel diff casing uses a standard rear differential, it would be adviseable to swap out the pinion oil seal for one meant for the front alloy casing. they are exactly the same, except they are directional and you are now running the diff backwards to achieve forwards drive, so oil will weep out of the seal.
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Post by Charles on Jun 7, 2011 23:40:30 GMT 2
Thanks! That looks great. Now to go find a diff...
Charles
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Post by danie on Jun 8, 2011 7:32:40 GMT 2
Thanks Simon. Fanus, it might be worthwhile to keep an eye on the Junkmail and Gumtree ads. Until Monday there was an ad at Junkmail where a rear axle, Transfer Box, and I think a front diff as well,l was up for grabs for R1500. Maybe it was just a printing error - if not, one could perhaps have sold the Transfer Box and front diff, to recover engineering costs for the axle mod. Obviously too late now... Danie
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Post by danie on Jun 16, 2011 16:56:16 GMT 2
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Post by marius on Jun 16, 2011 17:43:59 GMT 2
I do like those mods from Lada World just a pity we don't earn Euros Marius
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Ladaniva
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Post by Ladaniva on Jun 29, 2011 2:09:54 GMT 2
Hi Marius/Danie,
There is no need to import performance parts for Nivas anymore; the knowhow and technology is right here in South Africa!
Just a general remark on modifying standard Niva petrol engines: keep in mind that these engines still employ very, very old technology compared to the current generation engines. For example: the compression ratio is very low for one simple reason: the fuel quality when it was designed. To put a wilder cam into a low compression engine simply does not make sense.
A wilder cam also has another drawback; it change the characharistics of the engine power/torque delivery over the rev range. In my opinion you need all the torque you can get from a small capacity engine (even with low range) and a wilder cam almost always take away torque at lower revs. So, if I may give advice; when you need more power for your Niva, supercharge or turbocharge with low boost (take advantage of the old technology of low compression) but always go the ECU route to keep combustion temperatures in check for long engine life ( a 4 x 4 is a lugger off road = heat). The first price however if you need more power and reliability and want to basically keep your engine as is, is NOS (nitrous oxide injection). If fitted by a proffessional it can not harm your engine in any way (also see the remark by Charles regarding NOS for more and reliable torque earlier). And then, if you are brave, simply fit the Fiat engines, or better even, a Toyota 1600 engine. It is cheap, reliable, small, free revving and has the latest technology (except VVTI) and with amazing torque for a 16 valve engine (the supercharged version makes 140 Kw, standard!). To make this engine fit a Niva gearbox can not be easier with the latest techniques). Call Fana of AACC in Pretoria - 0837521655, if you do not believe me - he does that for a living).
Regards,
Fanus
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Post by marius on Jun 29, 2011 8:29:58 GMT 2
Thanks Fanus - the NOS sounds very interesting. I am not too worried about the Niva's torque. That and the low weight is more than adequite for me. This off coarse all depends on what kind of off-road you want to do.
The Niva's power (or rather lack thereof ;D) is another matter entirely and NOS sounds like a good answer to me.
Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jun 29, 2011 9:47:20 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I also find the power and torque adequate for my needs. I used to do long runs (7000kms) with Ari`s Niva loaded with roof rack, roof top tent, 100 litres of fuel, 20 litres of water, and the 2 of us and food etc and did not have a problem. the Niva has 5 gears so use them. ;D
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jun 29, 2011 17:31:41 GMT 2
Hi Fanus
I note you say the Niva has a low compression ratio. I do not consider 9.3 : 1 to be low. ? and many will have had the head skimmed so will be more.
Ronnie
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Ladaniva
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Post by Ladaniva on Jun 30, 2011 23:58:37 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie,
The 1600 cc Niva has a low compression motor. This very same already stretched motor, was modified to now to have a relatively high compression ratio and fuel injection. Note that I say stretched, because that is all it is in a time when all new petrol motors are cross flow designs, double overhead cam with 16 valves common, variable valve timing the in-thing etc (in short, much more efficient, reliable and economical engines).
All I am thus saying is that unless you take advantage of the low compression ratio (in the 1600) and in the case of the 1700 9.3 is also not too high (my modified normally aspirated Ford V6 ran with a 10:1 compression at reef altitude in 1992 already, and went very well), and provided you use mild boost, you should rather go the whole way and fit a newer technology engine. To conclude then: you will most probably be dissapointed to do the normal performance mods on a Niva (old tech) motor, especially if you see the power other 1600/1700 makes with less fuel currently.
The fear to mate other motors than Fiat motors to a Niva is totally unfounded with the current readily available technology and knowhow. And, the best of all; the conversion is very affordable currently. I base my whole argument on my believe and experience that the Niva platform is worth modifying, or else it is simply better to buy another 4 x 4. You will also note that I do not support powerfull motors for the Lada, because with the current gearing and weight you simply do not need it. Not only will you stretch the drivetrain it should also be costly to run.
I fully support anybody that prefer to keep their Lada's standard, because our whole family had many years of fun with the 1600 Niva all over South Africa (and I have done a few fun competitions while in the Kalahari too). The only reason I am modifying my Niva is that I need just a little bit more power overall than the 1700 offers (based on experience and because I will add a little bit more weight than most other Niva users, including what you mentioned, and will also later fit an air conditioner).
The bottom line is, which ever Niva you have, just enjoy it. The whole character of the Niva in the SA environment is that it is a gutsy fun vehicle, and therefore will not change it for any other 4 x 4.
Regards,
Fanus
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Post by danie on Jul 1, 2011 5:41:31 GMT 2
Hi Fanus
Any news about your engine mod ? Pics will be great, if possible.
Regards
Danie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 1, 2011 7:51:16 GMT 2
Hi Fanus
Fortunately There are only 2 of us now so the present power is fine for me. I agree as long as any power boost is mild the motor will last. I have an air con fitted and you can feel when the compressor kicks in. I look forward to pics of your mod. I think a supercharger is the easiest way to go if you want more power from the existing motor.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 1, 2011 7:54:37 GMT 2
Hi Fanus
I forgot to mention, even with Ari`s Niva I had an air con fitted and the motor managed fine provided you used the gears.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jul 1, 2011 7:55:10 GMT 2
Hi Fanus
I would love to keep our Niva standard but if the engine goes I will definitely look for something else with a bit more power. Mind you a T diesel would be very nice.
Provided that you look after it - I believe the 1.7 has quite a solid engine and hopefully it will takes years before I take that route ;D
Marius
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Jul 2, 2011 12:20:26 GMT 2
I still want to do a diesel conversion.
Fuel consumption is still not too my liking.
Regards Vincent
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Ladaniva
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Post by Ladaniva on Jul 2, 2011 16:47:40 GMT 2
Hi All, I still did not make enough progress with the conversion to put interesting pictures on here. The mounting plates are still in to be laser cut (should get it back next week). laser cutting is now so popular/cost efficient that you realy must wait your turn! The beauty is of course that you can now afford to make everything from stainless, because they supply the plate and cut. I also went the route of using flat plates so that the brackets can easily be replicated (and laser cut), saving the next supercharger-fitter a few bucks and time! I am researching the fitting of a supercharger currently (I need no nasty surprises). For example, who knew that noise is a major problem when fitting a supercharger the wrong way (remember the first thing Danie noticed when the pro-Lada was switched to supercharge mode was the noise)? One of the weighty things I am going to fit is a sound quality sound system, and the last thing you then need is a noisy supercharger). I plan to put the intercooler in such a place that it assist with the noise control (sound waves that go into a larger area change/become less noisy), because I will have to reroute the exhaust-side pipe of the supercharger slightly. In fact, one of the give-away pictures of the Durban-pro Lada is the one showing the exhaust pipe/outlet of the supercharger; they clearly did not expect that the form of the outlet was to amplify the noise! I will also allow clearance to fit sound deadening around the supercharger piping, if required. An other interesting thing I learned from the Durban-pro Lada is that they removed the distributor in order to fit the supercharger (thanks again to one of the photos that Danie took). This must have added to the cost of the conversion. Just something I want to put right regarding my reference to the power of the standard supercharged Toyota 1600 motor; a few sources mention that the maximum output was more in the region of 120 Kw and not 140 Kw (the 140 kw must then have been one with a smaller pulley (or bigger on the drive side). But fuss free 120+ kw in a Niva must be very satisfying . next time I will attach a very nice write-up of the Toyota 1600 motor as well as information for the brave about the different superchargers that can be fitted (the SC12 is not the only one, for sure). Regards, Fanus
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