slowvelder
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Post by slowvelder on Dec 19, 2009 20:16:13 GMT 2
I need to replace the oil seal on the shaft of the Wheel Drive Inner Joint Housing - both left and right sides of the front diff. How do I remove the Inner Joint Bearing. It sits snugly against the Inner Joint Shell Bearing Cover and there is little space to get any tool between the too to remove/lift the bearing from the shaft. I'd appreciate all good advice out there.
Steve 0828518172
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Post by ronnie on Dec 19, 2009 20:38:11 GMT 2
Steve
If you do not have a workshop manual click on Technical issues page 2 and follow the link to download parts 1 2 & 3. Otherwise, someone on the forum will be sure to help you.
Regards
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Dec 19, 2009 22:50:44 GMT 2
Steve, I have stripped two front Lada diffs, and rebuilt one of them - all work done while the diffs have been removed from the vehicle. From this experience I beleive that if the oil seals on your Lada were leaking badly, it might be worthwhile rather to remove the diff completely. Badly worn oilseals might be an indication that the diff has been "well used", and that all components should be checked properly. With bad oil leaks, one never knows if the vehicle has been drived around by the previous owner, while the oil level was too low........ Low oil levels, and dirty oil could also cause excesive wear on the diff Pinion Shaft (Part no. 2101 - 2403060), and it might be worthwhile to have a close look at this part as well. The pinion shaft can be seen in my hand on this pic : No reason to worry though - the diffs are easy to work on, once it has been removed from the vehicle. There might be other ways to replace the seals and bearings, but I beleive the diff should rather be removed completely - which means that one wheel and sideshaft should be removed as well. If you need further advice, please let us know. The links to the 1700cc models (Petrol and Diesel) can be found here : locsa.atspace.com/links.htmInstructions regarding the front diffs can be found at Repair Manual Part 2. Regards Danie
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slowvelder
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Post by slowvelder on Dec 20, 2009 16:56:09 GMT 2
Many thanks for that rapid response Ronnie and Danie, I do have the manuals but they are not specific as to how to get that bearing off. However I trawled the internet for a bearing tool and have a good idea on how to make one. Danie, I am doing exactly as you suggest. I have just bought this vehicle and am preparing it for road worthy. So the diff is already out today. I am going to replace CV boots and repact joints and also service the wheel bearings.
Steve
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Post by danie on Dec 20, 2009 20:51:09 GMT 2
Steve, if you still have problems to remove the bearing(s), you could perhaps just forward a photograph of the specific bearing, if possible.
Unfortunately I can't remember what I did when removing the bearings . I did not have any problems in this regard, but I have a feeling that luck was just on my side.
A photograph might help to identify the cause of the problem, or to make a sensable suggestion.
Regards
Danie
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Post by danie on Dec 21, 2009 11:41:31 GMT 2
Steve, I had another look at the spare diff in my garage, and discovered that I hav'nt removed the seals from the old flanges yet. I assume these are the bearings , seals and flanges that you are talking about : I just put the flange in a small bench vice, and hammered the seal gently out of the flange. Just take care not to brake the flange - if somebody used Locktite on the metal outer ring of your seal, you might battle to remove it from the flange. I used the same vice to force a new oil seal in place......... NSK 6306NR*C3**711 Bearing are a perfect match, and should be available at any Bearing dealer. No aftermarket bearings are available for the diff itself - should be available at Centurion Lada, or Chris Swales Motors. Just remember the sideshaft oil seals are not the same. The deflecting grooves on the two seals are facing the opposite way - to deflect dirt from the bearings . So do'nt fit them the wrong way round. Hope this helps. Regards Danie
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Post by danie on Dec 21, 2009 15:26:52 GMT 2
Just another thought about the diff bearings :
I have stripped two front and two rear diffs in the past, and I have a feeling that two of the innner bearings (Part No 2101- 2403036), could perhaps be seen as the "weak" spot of the diffs.
On all four difs all other inner bearings were still in perfect condition, while the above mentioned bearings were worn. In fact, one of these bearings (front diff) almost collapsed completely.
None of the inner bearings are compatable with other bearings on the local market, and can only be bought from the local agents, or it can be imported from Russia.
The local price of the above mentioned bearings are about R495.00 each, excl. VAT..
So if anyone ever order parts from Russia, it might be worthwhile rather to order some of the above mentioned parts as well..............
Danie
Danie
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slowvelder
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Post by slowvelder on Dec 22, 2009 22:22:48 GMT 2
Excellent insight and advice. Many thanks
I will take a few pics tomorrow and post them tomorrow evening.
Steve
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slowvelder
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Post by slowvelder on Dec 23, 2009 11:17:15 GMT 2
Hi Danie, I am not sure I understand your note on the flange seals. Is the left hand seal different to the right hand seal? Can you only use OEM seals or will aftermarket seals work to? I have taken some photo's but I haven't figured out how to attach them. But I am going to give it a bash The first pic below shows the drive bearing housing on the front right diff. Note the striations and markings that indicate the bearing cage might have been turning. The next pic shows the left hand side bearing housing of the front diff with similar striations and markings Below is a pic of the front right axle showing the bearing and flange. Notice the slight rust on the bearing itself. I have not started work on this particular axle. The last pic below shows the front left axle's inner bearing and flange. Here you can see that the circlips have been removed but the bearing is sitting fast on the shaft. I should point out that the out shaft wheel bearings are allso similar "stuck" on the shaft. [imgF:\DCIM\101MSDCF\DSC01644.JPG][/img] Steve
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Post by danie on Dec 27, 2009 20:01:19 GMT 2
Hi Steve Sorry about this late reply - I just came back from the Free State, and did not have access to a computer during the past couple of days.
The two oil seals are exactly the same size, but if you have a close look at the rubber area of the seals, you will notice small grooves which are facing the opposite way on the different seals. When the side shafts are rotating in the normal direction (driving forward), the grooves helps to deflect dust and dirt outwards / away from the bearings.
If you have a look at the part list (front diff), you will also notice that the left hand oil seal part number differ from the part number of the seal on the right. But as said above - the only difference is the direction of the grooves..........
As far as I can remember, I couldn't find any replacement seals - so I bought OEM seals from Chris Swales Motors. Unfortunately I can't remember the price.
Regards
Danie
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slowvelder
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Post by slowvelder on Dec 30, 2009 19:09:31 GMT 2
Hi Danie, Thanks for the explanation about the seals. I understand now. Here are the pics. The first pic shows the bearing housing in the front diff (right side). Note that the bearing has been turning in the housing. To stop this should I pop (punch mark) the housing every quarter way around ? The next pic is of the left hand side. Same problem The next two pics are of the inner CV housing for both left and right axles. Note the bearing up against the flange. Assuming I have removed the circlips, how does one get these bearings off to get at the flange seals ?? Note one of the bearings show a bit of rust, indicating that there was water in their for a while in the past, although when I drained the oil and inspected the diff there was no mayonaise. The front diff cover also had some rust 00n the inside. Despite the rust, bearings seem serviceable. Ive looked using a split bearing puller but there is no gap between the bearing and the flange to get in there. How much "pursuasion" can I use. Should I just destroy the bearings Looking forward to your reply Regards Steve
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slowvelder
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Post by slowvelder on Dec 30, 2009 19:13:44 GMT 2
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Post by danie on Dec 30, 2009 20:24:55 GMT 2
Steve, at work I am involved in quality control (different field), but I do inspect bearings almost every day of my life. I would advice you rather to replace those bearings.
The outer bearing rings were not suppose to turn in the bearing housing at all. If you have a close look at the inner and outer bearing ring ball grooves, as well as the individual balls with a magnifying glass, you will probably find small pit holes - which will just become worse by time. The NSK bearings are not too expensive anyway, and by replacing the bearings now, might save you the hassle of stripping everything again in the near future.
I just wonder if rust is not also causing the bearings to "stick" to the sideshafts. When I removed the bearing on both front diffs before, it came off the sideshafts quite easily.
It might be better rather to use a bench press (if available) to remove the bearings from the sideshafts in your case. Or you could support the bearings in some or other way on a stand / bench at the bottom, then use a copper hammer to hit the shaft at the end. Direct hits with a normal hammer could distort the shaft end, and should not be used at all. If you do not have a copper hammer, you could put a block of wood on the shaft, then hit the block of wood with a normal hammer.
The inner bearing could also be heated slightly with Acetylene, but one should take care - too much heat could weaken the sideshaft permanently.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Danie
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Post by danie on Dec 31, 2009 10:50:34 GMT 2
Steve, I forgot about your question regarding punch marks on the bearing housings.
I don't think punch marks will help. The aluminum bearing housings are too soft, and the bearing outer ring might start slipping again. At work we tried this with high pressure pumps, but without success. On high pressure pumps slipping outer bearing rings usually cause overheating problems, and I am quite convinced that slipping outer bearing rings on Lada diffs could cause overheating problems on the front diff as well.
Perhaps you can try a combination of new bearings, punch marks, and Locktite on the bearing housings. The outer bearing rings on your photographs look slightly worn as well - so new bearings might fit better.
If you use Locktite, just make sure there is no oil on the housing and bearing outer ring when you add the Locktite - Locktite does not stick to oily surfaces. You will also have to wait until the Locktite is dry, before you fill the diff with oil.
The only problem with ordinary Locktite is that it loose it's grip at high temperatures. I am aware of a Loctite product which can absorb high temperatures, but I have never tried it myself.
As far as your last question is concerned - I would rather get rid of the old bearings.
Regards
Danie
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Post by danie on Jan 3, 2010 11:21:21 GMT 2
Hi Steve
This is just another suggestion :
At work our technicians often use Steel Epoxy on worn Brass high pressure pump heads - with great success. I do have a feeling that a very thin layer of the same epoxy on the worn aluminum bearing housing, as well as the worn diff housing should ensure a firmer grip on the bearing outer ring.
The thin layer of epoxy should obviously be allowed to dry properly, before the bearings get installed - otherwise the bearings will stick to the flange and diff forever !
One should obviously make sure that the layer of epoxy is not too thick - it could cause problems when trying to remove the bearings in future.
As said, this is just a suggestion, and has probably never been tried before..........
Regards
Danie
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bobbyd
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Post by bobbyd on Jan 4, 2010 21:55:47 GMT 2
My bearing there where held in by circlips, those seals are handed
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slowvelder
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Post by slowvelder on Jan 15, 2010 17:47:11 GMT 2
Hi Danie,
I am all sorted now. It was all quite simple and straight forward in the end. I am about to start reassembling. I will use a specially formulated bearing retainer fluid to hold the bearing tight in the housing.
Steve
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Post by danie on Jan 15, 2010 18:19:12 GMT 2
Thanks for the feedback Steve. Do you mind sending us more information about the specific product, as well as the name of the supplier(s) ? Details could be very useful to other Lada owners, and I have a feeling it could be very useful at work.......... ..........we might be able to save our customers a lot of unnecessary expenses. Regards Danie
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slowvelder
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Post by slowvelder on Jan 26, 2010 16:44:54 GMT 2
Hi Danie,
It is called Pacer ANL-RC Retaining Compound for General Purpose use i.e., bushings, shafts, keyways, gears. It is a high strenth general purpse retaining compound for retaining bearings, bushings, collars, gears and other cylindrical parts. The 0.005" gap fill capability allows use and design of slip fit instead of press fit parts. (thats what it says on the back label) - Marketed and distributed through Bearing Man Group.
There is a stronger version with the same brand name but I would advise against using that for bearings lest you can't get them out again.
Steve
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Post by danie on Jan 26, 2010 17:41:00 GMT 2
Thanks for the info Steve. We buy bearings from Bearing Man almost on a daily basis, and I will contact them in this regard. I was not aware of this product at all.......... Regards Danie
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darryn
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Post by darryn on May 12, 2010 20:57:22 GMT 2
Hello everyone.
I have to out my Lada through the road worthy test, and two of the CV boots are torn, which will ensure I fail. Now, to get CV boots from overseas (or, heaven forbid, from Centurion) is going to be quite expensive. Does anyone know of CV boots other than Lada's that will fit over the CV joint? Any substitutes?
Laters. Darryn.
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Des
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Post by Des on May 13, 2010 8:06:19 GMT 2
Hi Darryn On Baxter' Niva, he has a Technical Resource + Mods section. Go into it and click on "Alternate parts that fit Nivas". He says that the Audi 100, 77-86 are the same size. I have never tried it, but it might be worth a shot. Cheap too. Des
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Post by ronnie on May 13, 2010 9:16:10 GMT 2
Hi Darryn
I also had a torn boot (noticed it when I first brought the Lada home.) Replaced it with Partquip CV22K bought at the local parts shop. Hope this helps.
Regards
Ronnie
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Hercules
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Post by Hercules on May 13, 2010 20:11:04 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie.
Thanks for the info, it will help a lot because I also need to replace 2x CV boots.
Regards.
Hercules
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darryn
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Post by darryn on May 13, 2010 21:46:03 GMT 2
You legends. Thank you so much.
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