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Post by hotstuff on Dec 13, 2010 15:37:28 GMT 2
this is what happens when the starter jams on fly whell and goes for a eight on the valves and piston. poor client didn't want to spend money on replacing starter. Now the result busted engine.
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Post by hotstuff on Dec 13, 2010 15:38:52 GMT 2
THE VALVES STUFFED
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Post by ronnie on Dec 13, 2010 15:46:13 GMT 2
Hi Mike
I am not questioning you, but you need to explain to me how a jammed starter can do this damage, as I cannot figure that one out. Normally when a starter jambs in mesh it tries to act as a dynamo and burns itself out.
Ronnie
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Post by hotstuff on Dec 13, 2010 15:54:59 GMT 2
THE STARTER SEIZED WHILE DRIVING APPARENTLY AND CAUSED THE CAM TO MISS A BEAT . IT JUMPED ON THE CHAIN AS WELL THROWING TIMING OUT WITH CAM. POSSIBLY ALSO THE CHAIN TENSIONER WAS JAMMED LEAVING SLACK ON CHAIN. THIS ALL HAPPENED WHEN ROLL STARTING THE CAR.
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Post by hotstuff on Dec 13, 2010 16:10:43 GMT 2
OK FOUND PROBLEM FLYWHEEL WENT OFF CENTRE AND CAUSED ALL THE DAMAGE DUE TO STARTER JAMMING REALLY TIGHT. RESULTING IN A CHAIN REACTION OF FAST EVENTS. OF DAMAGE I WOULD BELIEVE.
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Post by Charles on Dec 13, 2010 17:57:59 GMT 2
Hi Mike
Is he going to repair or sell the car?
Charles
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Post by ronnie on Dec 13, 2010 18:14:02 GMT 2
Hi Mike
I think for that to happen the timing chain in all probability must have been very slack. No doubt due to lack of maintenance.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Dec 13, 2010 19:58:31 GMT 2
Hi Mike
I assume you mean the starter did not cause the damage to the valves and pistons ?
I also fail to understand how a new starter would make any difference.
Regards
Danie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Dec 13, 2010 20:42:08 GMT 2
Push starting? Suppose he tried to pull the Lada with another vehicle This will give me nightmares Regards Spikes
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Post by hotstuff on Dec 13, 2010 21:02:40 GMT 2
HI TO CLARIFY THE OLD STARTER JAMED ON THE FLY WHEEL MISS ALIGNING CRANK WITH CAM CAUSING CHAIN TENSIONER TO OBVIOUS JAM AND SLACKNESS THEN CAUSED CHAIN TO SKIP AND SO FORTH. AS STARTER WAS FAULTY AND CLIENT DIDN'T WANT TO REPLACE HIS STARTER IT HAD TO BE ROLLED STARTED ALL THE TIME. ACORDING TO SOME RESEARCH IF THE STARTER JAMS HARD ENOUGH IT CAN THROW THE FLYWHEEL OUT. WHEN THE CAR CAME TO ME IT WAS ALREADY RATTLING LIKE A TRACTOR AND WAS LOW ON COMPRESSION. THIS POOR CAR WAS NOT IN A GOOD STATE AND WAS NOT SERVICED OR TIMED CORRECTLY ETC. HE DID NOT WANT TO SPEND ALOT OF MONEY ON THE CAR. IT WAS DOOMED FROM THE START. I THINK THAT THE CAM AND THE CRANK WHERE ALREADY OUT OF ALIGNMENT AND STARTER JAMING FLY WHEEL MADE IT WORSE. THE CAR IS NOW STUCK WITH ME AND NOT SURE WHAT HE WANTS TO DO NOW.
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Post by hotstuff on Dec 13, 2010 21:07:32 GMT 2
I FEEL REALY BAD FOR THE GUY AND HE IS DEVISTATED AT THE RESULT. BUT HE REKONS ITS MY FAULT AND HOW I DO NOT KNOW AND WHY WHO THE HECK KNOWS. SHAME POOR OWNER AND POOR CAR AND ALL HE WANTED TO DO WAS TRY AND GET IT RUNNING FOR HIS DADS FARM AS A XMAS GIFT.
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Post by Charles on Dec 13, 2010 21:38:13 GMT 2
Mike let me know if its gets stripped for spares.
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Post by hotstuff on Dec 13, 2010 22:01:45 GMT 2
will have to see what client says we fighting now about time spent on car etc. he was thinking of putting in a datsun motor or similar
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Post by danie on Dec 13, 2010 22:02:33 GMT 2
HI TO CLARIFY THE OLD STARTER JAMED ON THE FLY WHEEL MISS ALIGNING CRANK ACORDING TO SOME RESEARCH IF THE STARTER JAMS HARD ENOUGH IT CAN THROW THE FLYWHEEL OUT. Hi Mike I do find your explanation very interesting indeed. I must admit, this is the first time in my life that I hear about a jammed starter which is capable of "miss aligning a crank". I stand to be corrected, but to my mind, this is simply impossible. After all, the Lada engine has 5 main bearings, which keeps the Crankshaft in place. This means all 5 main bearings have to be buggered completely to "miss align" the crankshaft. As a matter of interest - could you reveal the source of your information / research ? Regards Danie
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Post by hotstuff on Dec 13, 2010 22:25:34 GMT 2
i read it on the net. but i am to very only once gearbox is out. still think the chain skipped a tooth or 2 tho but the starter was badly jamed in and when i opened the front timing chain cover crank gear was out of alignment with cam,maybe conrods slipped. hell knows, all i know is that the engine is stuffed and was on its way when i last herd it. the poor guy is devistated wish i had better news for him.
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Post by danie on Dec 14, 2010 5:41:32 GMT 2
Hi Mike Can you supply any links ? Regards Danie
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Post by ronnie on Dec 14, 2010 9:15:21 GMT 2
Hi Danie
I think reading between the lines that What Mike means is the crank and camshaft timing marks are out of line. Like you I was reading it that the crank was out of line with it`s bearings. I am sure the chain must have been slack to begin with for it to jump teeth.
Ronnie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Dec 14, 2010 12:34:06 GMT 2
Hi Danie/Ronnie IMHO slack cam chain was the main reason for the hard starting and eventually the damage rgds Spikes
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Post by ronnie on Dec 14, 2010 12:45:47 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
I am sure this was the root problem with the Lada at Mike`s a slack timing chain. It is recommended you check it every 10000 km, however there would be no problem doing this more often.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Dec 14, 2010 18:36:43 GMT 2
Hi Mike
By the time you make adapter plates and engine mounts and pick up the diff mounts and buy a Datsun or whatever motor, you would be as cheap rebuilding the Lada motor. You still have the starter motor and exhaust to do. I don`t think it makes sense for someone with little money to embark on changing motors with all the work it entails.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Dec 14, 2010 18:37:03 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie / Spikes I also thought the timing marks were out of line, or the tension at the timing chain was incorrect. I must admit - I am not good at reeding between the lines. regards Danie
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Post by danie on Dec 14, 2010 18:58:32 GMT 2
I must admit - I am not good at reeding between the lines. That's why I prefer straight forward explanations. Regards Danie
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Ventzel
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Post by Ventzel on Dec 14, 2010 22:23:53 GMT 2
I agree, it is hardly to believe that starter will cause such a big damages. Definitely was something else and probably the starter jam added the last 1-2% to the breaking point. Happened before and the worst case scenario was to break the bendix - the weakest link.
Anyway.
Mike, I'll be on a short holiday in Cape Town 9-17 January and I would like to visit you and see these tyres which we discussed before. If you don't mind of course. Please send me a PM with your physical address, telephone, cellphone.
Rgds
Ventz
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Post by Charles on Dec 14, 2010 22:47:27 GMT 2
Hi Ventz
Are you driving down thru PE?
Charles
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bobbyd
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Post by bobbyd on Dec 15, 2010 8:43:13 GMT 2
Hi Mike By the time you make adapter plates and engine mounts and pick up the diff mounts and buy a Datsun or whatever motor, you would be as cheap rebuilding the Lada motor. You still have the starter motor and exhaust to do. I don`t think it makes sense for someone with little money to embark on changing motors with all the work it entails. Ronnie In my experience this is the number problem with backyarders". These projects always end up on ebay unfinished, always. nobody buys them so they go to the car crusher.ALWAYS!
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Ventzel
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Post by Ventzel on Dec 15, 2010 8:45:59 GMT 2
Hi Charles,
Usually yes, I'm driving but this time is exception. We gonna fly. I don't have much time. It takes two days on the road down and three days back. And I have two small children, it's a mission to keep them tied with seat belts all this time.
V.
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Post by ronnie on Dec 15, 2010 9:32:20 GMT 2
Hi Bob and Mike
Changing the motor to a different one from the original is for the dedicated SKILLED diy person who has the time and money to see the project completed successfully and has the ability to overcome all the obstacles which will surely rear their ugly head.
Ronnie
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bobbyd
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Post by bobbyd on Dec 16, 2010 11:12:36 GMT 2
Hi Bob and Mike Changing the motor to a different one from the original is for the dedicated SKILLED diy person who has the time and money to see the project completed successfully and has the ability to overcome all the obstacles which will surely rear their ugly head. Ronnie Right on!!
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Post by hotstuff on Dec 16, 2010 11:14:13 GMT 2
thanks guys for the comments i am aware of the every 10000km check i tend to do it every 5000-8000km any way the owner and i will be under discussion in jan about it. thanks all for your input
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