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Post by danie on Nov 15, 2010 20:31:32 GMT 2
Hi Ventz
Could you please confirm whether a 1600cc Timing Chain shoe could be used on a 1700 cc Lada engine ?
If not, could you please explain why it should not be used on a 1700cc engine ?
Your comments in this regard will be highly appreciated.
Regards
Danie
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Nov 15, 2010 20:34:33 GMT 2
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Post by Charles on Nov 15, 2010 20:50:23 GMT 2
Im also very curious now. Something else came to mind today, i hope its not off topic. How much oil gets sprayed on the chain? At work i have hat engines that worn their guids thru in 45 000Km found out a jet with two holes were fitted instead of one with a single hole. Thus not enough oil on the chain and this causes too much friction.
Charles
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Post by hotstuff on Nov 15, 2010 20:58:46 GMT 2
well according to my technical specs and drawings wether it 1600 or 1700 they look the same. correct me if i'm wrong and on some they use the oil pressure to adjust the tensioner. the only difference i c is the adjusting nut that can be changed to the oil pressure nut.
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Post by Charles on Nov 15, 2010 21:03:26 GMT 2
So you can change the manual adjuster to one that works with oil pressure?
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Post by hotstuff on Nov 15, 2010 21:09:02 GMT 2
not sure but a chap in still bay said it works
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Post by hotstuff on Nov 15, 2010 21:10:06 GMT 2
1600 left 1700 right manual adjustment.
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Post by Charles on Nov 15, 2010 21:10:46 GMT 2
Thats sounds like a great mod.
Charles
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Post by hotstuff on Nov 15, 2010 21:11:19 GMT 2
1600 top 1700 bottom
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Post by hotstuff on Nov 15, 2010 21:13:38 GMT 2
well i believe there are some ladas which have this already unless i am misinformed
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Post by ronnie on Nov 15, 2010 21:30:38 GMT 2
Hi Charles and Mike
I don`t think the oil pressure adjusts the chain as the manual states "this oil acts as a shock absorbing meduim during chain impacts" All 1700 engins have this. I don`t know about 1600`s.
Ronnie
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Post by hotstuff on Nov 15, 2010 21:35:37 GMT 2
just checked up on it well apparently it maintains the chains tension and not all 1700 had these the older models where all manual like the 1600's . according to a manual i've got it should be an easy mod if you look at the drawings but hey who am i to tell i'm just going with what i see and through trial and era which never fails lol. but seriously i rather adjust manually knowing it's done properly
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Post by ronnie on Nov 15, 2010 21:52:16 GMT 2
Hi Charles and Mike
Just had a look at the manual. If I am reading it correctly the injected Ladas have a hydraulic tensioner. It gets the oil pressure from a "T" piece at the oil pressure switch.
Ronnie
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bobbyd
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Post by bobbyd on Nov 15, 2010 21:56:43 GMT 2
Ronnie is correct.
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Post by Charles on Nov 15, 2010 22:18:33 GMT 2
That will be the best. Then it is always perfectly adjusted.
Charles
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Post by danie on Nov 16, 2010 5:47:58 GMT 2
Hi Ventz
Your comments in this regard will be highly appreciated.
According to information in my possession one of the local importers is installing 1600 cc timing shoes on 1700cc engines, and according to this information this should not be done at all.
Could you please explain why 1600 cc timing shoes should not be installed to 1700cc engines?
Regards
Danie
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Post by hotstuff on Nov 16, 2010 13:48:46 GMT 2
ok well my appologies i have seen now and found out that 1600 cant be fitted on a 1700 from due to shoe slightly different and the oil pressure ones have a completely different shoe which is longer. not sure how this other guy got the mod right. he must of changed the parts inside as well. i now have pics of all the different timing chain configurations as soon as i get a chance i will load them up.
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Post by marius on Nov 16, 2010 16:41:33 GMT 2
Hi Danie
Hopefully this might shed some light...
According to our Russian member - Dronniver there are two types.
Chain two-row. for the engine carburetor 1600, 1700 Chain single row, for the engine injector 1700
I would suspect then if you have a carb 1700 the 1600 parts should fit.
Only if you have fuel injection - you might not be able to. BUT this is pure guesswork.
Regards Marius
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Post by spikes on Nov 16, 2010 19:35:06 GMT 2
Hi all The Bongol 2000 TBI had no T peice and the adjuster is a manual unit. As far as I know only TBI Nivas were imported Regards Spikes
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Hercules
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Post by Hercules on Nov 16, 2010 20:07:34 GMT 2
Hi All.
According to the manual only the 1700 MPI (multi point injection) has a hydraulic tensioner. The mpi was not imported to South Africa.
Regards.
Hercules.
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Hercules
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Post by Hercules on Nov 16, 2010 20:15:40 GMT 2
Hi All.
Believe me, the shoes are not the same and the 1600 shoe only work with a modification to the tensioner due to the 1700 tensioner does not reach the 1600 shoe when fitted to the 1700.
The 1700 with carb and the 1700 TBI uses the same shoe and tensioner.
Regards.
Hercules
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Post by danie on Nov 16, 2010 20:26:59 GMT 2
Hi Hercules
I am sure Ventz will be able to confirm whether it could be used or not.
Regards
Danie
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Ventzel
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Post by Ventzel on Nov 17, 2010 9:07:28 GMT 2
Hi all,
I really wish Hercules to explain the problem about all this chain-shoe-tensioner business. We discussed it privately couple a weeks ago with complete unanimity.
V.
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Post by danie on Nov 17, 2010 20:02:43 GMT 2
I was hoping for a detailed technical explanation by a Lada specialist in this regard - so I also raised a question at the Difflock forum. I guess the Lada specialists worldwide are not sure about this issue, and each one of them might have his own ideas in this regard. It might make sense rather to stick to Gadgetboy's advice: "There are about 30 parts that make up the chain tensioner and guide and they all need to be matched. Stick to the correct parts of your vehicle. " forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=58042If anyone has any experience in this regard (1600 timing chain shoe being installed to a 1700cc) , please feel free to share your experience here. Regards Danie
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Post by danie on Nov 18, 2010 5:13:20 GMT 2
Hi Darryn
I think you should have a proper look at the timing chain shoe on you engine as well.
Apparently one of the Agents is selling 1600cc timing chain shoes for 1700cc engines, and there is a possibility that an incorrect timing chain shoe has caused the problem on your car.
Regards
Danie
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Post by ronnie on Nov 18, 2010 9:30:44 GMT 2
Hi Danie
Which agent is reported to be selling 1600 timing chain shoes for 1700 engines ?. It is very important that we know so that anyone who may have had a motor done here or have bought spares there can check before damage is done.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Nov 18, 2010 18:22:25 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
I haven't seen any invoices yet, therefore I prefer not to mention names at this stage.
All I can say - rather buy these parts from Ventz - I am aware of the fact that he regard using 1600 cc timing chain shoes on a 1700cc engine as absolute "crazy".
Regards
Danie
P.S. Ventz, Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Ventzel
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Post by Ventzel on Nov 19, 2010 8:48:58 GMT 2
Hi Danie,
Please ask Hercules to reply to you my PM to him dated 7 Nov. I've tried to do it but errors occur. Obviously I'm still not very familiar with some tricks on the web.
Rgds
Ventz
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Post by ronnie on Nov 19, 2010 9:22:16 GMT 2
Hi Danie
When you have seen invoices please let us know which agent you are refering to so that all concerned can check their timing chain shoe before any damage is done.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Nov 19, 2010 17:52:01 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie / Ventz
I will pass some comments at the "Consumer Protection Act 2010" thread in this regards as well.
I think in the meanwhile all owners who are aware that their (1700cc) timing chains have been replaced with 1600 cc timing chains, should keep their invoices at a safe place for future reference. With the new Consumers Protection Act in mind, I think everyone should keep all relevant documentation, should it be needed in court.
Ventz, the reason why I was hoping for a detailed explanation is because I think all owners should know what the differences between these timing chains are, and what problems could occur when the wrong timing chain has been used.
Regards
Danie
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