Hercules
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Lada - your peace of mind to take on the world's vast landscapes.
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Post by Hercules on Oct 23, 2010 21:18:09 GMT 2
I've notice today that the Landy prophaft uj's sit at a 45degree offset to each other while the Lada uj's is in a straight line. Is this to eliminate vibrations or what will the reason be. The Landy got longer props than the Lada and there is no vibrations at all.
The Landy Repair Manual also shows the 45degree ofset of the uj's and mentioned that you must make sure of this configuration when re-assemble the props.
Regards.
Hercules
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Oct 23, 2010 21:37:40 GMT 2
Hi
Could you change the angle of the lada propshafts by rotating the UJ at the spline end???
Ari
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Post by Charles on Oct 23, 2010 21:42:42 GMT 2
Ari i was wondering about that also. Thing that bothers me is my propshafts has stickers with alignment marks at the splines. I wanted to turn it before i had it balanced.
Charles
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Post by danie on Oct 24, 2010 7:12:55 GMT 2
Hi Hercules Very interesting. I wonder if the 45 deg offset (or lack of) have been discussed at any of the Landy forums before It might be worthwhile to discuss this issue with Landy experts, or at a Landy forum. Regards Danie
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Post by danie on Oct 24, 2010 9:53:14 GMT 2
Could you change the angle of the lada propshafts by rotating the UJ at the spline end??? Ari Hi Hercules / Ari Ari , yes, the angle can be changed by rotating the UJ's at the splined end. I've just tried it on both propshafts (front and rear), and it works perfectly ! (Will send pics later) Hercules, I have just had a close look at the (loose) propshafts in my possession - and without being over optimistic, I think the Russians have made a serious mistake by not lining the UJ's up at a 45 deg angle !When both UJ's are turned to face the same direction (i.e. facing upwards), the center shaft (between the two UJ's) is clearly sagging down (caused by gravity), and the complete shaft is clearly out of line !I am more than just convinced that you have just discovered a major cause of vibration problems !Regards Danie
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Post by ronnie on Oct 24, 2010 10:22:52 GMT 2
Hi Danie and Hercules
I had never noticed the prop universals were not at 45 deg. This is a normal rulling so why would Lada be different.
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on Oct 24, 2010 10:42:32 GMT 2
I hope it solves the vibration problems.
Charles
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Post by danie on Oct 24, 2010 11:10:09 GMT 2
With apology to the Russians - maybe I've jumped the gun........ Just have a look at this : www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Driveline-101.shtmlUnder the "Phase" topic a clear note indicates "..........the joint yokes must be aligned exactly with each other.........." Danie
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Hein
Junior Niva Petrol Head
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Post by Hein on Oct 24, 2010 11:51:04 GMT 2
Hi Guys
Ok. now I messed up my book shelf. I remember from a subject I had to take while studying Engineering called Moter Vehicle Design that there is a law about UJ's. It was either that they need to be 100% alligned or at 90deg at both ends, I would like to confirm this but I cannot find my old text book. It had to do with the fact that if setup at wrong angle they force the propshaft in oposite direction and cause vibration.
Hein
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Post by danie on Oct 24, 2010 12:47:11 GMT 2
Hi Hein
The link above also stress the importance of the fact that both angles at the two different UJ's should be exactly the same.
It also indicates that should the angles be different, the rotating speed on the UJ's will differ from each other at a certain stage of rotation - and that cause vibration problems !
Looking at the angles at the rear Diff flange and Transfer Box flange on my Lada, the angles does not seem to be the same.....
Danie
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bobbyd
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Post by bobbyd on Oct 24, 2010 12:55:03 GMT 2
There is a reason why later model Nivas have CVs instead of unis in these positions, This would proerly be it.
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Post by danie on Oct 24, 2010 14:01:13 GMT 2
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bobbyd
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Post by bobbyd on Oct 24, 2010 23:13:23 GMT 2
Lada dealers say inline
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Post by marius on Oct 25, 2010 6:38:32 GMT 2
I'm still dreaming about a set of those CV shafts I'm convinced that those shafts should make a huge difference.
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Oct 25, 2010 7:38:11 GMT 2
Hi All
From what the Suzuki guys are saying it seems that if the propshaft is only angling vertically, then it should be set at 90 degrees. However if it is at a vertical and horizontal angle 45 degrees is better.
The Lada's propshaft angles in both directions.
Ari
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darryn
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Post by darryn on Oct 25, 2010 17:09:48 GMT 2
So my engineering Comradskis- what is the final answer? In-line or 45deg?
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Post by danie on Oct 25, 2010 18:02:05 GMT 2
While my Lada has done more than 150 000 kms with the UJ's in the "in line" position, I will stick to that and rather make sure that the angles are exactly the same at the opposite ends : According to the link at the previous page, as well as other links I have surfed yesterday -, the angles at the opposite ends should be exactly the same - any difference in angles will cause vibration problems. Danie
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Hercules
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Lada - your peace of mind to take on the world's vast landscapes.
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Post by Hercules on Oct 25, 2010 19:15:49 GMT 2
Hi All.
My problem is a irritating and annoying vibration between 80 and 100km/h. The uj,s are replaced and the prop balanced. The play on transfer output about 1mm. If I removed rear prop, all vibrations disappeared. My props uj's are also in a line.
The vibration is just irritating the s@$t out of me.
Regards.
Hercules
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Post by ronnie on Oct 25, 2010 20:31:47 GMT 2
Hi Hercules
I know how you feel!
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on Oct 25, 2010 22:51:51 GMT 2
Hi all
I looked at a couple of cars at work today, X-trails, Navaras and Np300s. On all of them the u-joints are inline.
Charles
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bobbyd
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Post by bobbyd on Oct 26, 2010 4:59:16 GMT 2
Dont let the vibrations get the better of you! My friend here who used to work for Lada Australia had a mission to see if they could rid Nivas of vibrations. They balanced both prop shafts,rear axles, wheels,tyres,front axles,brake discs,rear brake drums,and other stuff. They spent a fortune on various doughnut replacements,gerbox and T/C mounts and CVS at all the uni joint positions. They built a jig which holds the gearbox and T/C in correct allignment both vert and hori so they could get ideal shimming of the T/C to the floor. All this on brand new Nivas and still they couldnt get rid of vibrations, they got rid of most but not all. And after all that what did they learn.... the most cruial thing is a genuine doughnut and gearbox to T/C alignment and subsiquint shimming,both vert and hori. Personally after putting a new doughnut in and getting my allignment pretty good my vibration level is low and constant throughout the RPM range.
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Post by ronnie on Oct 26, 2010 9:00:21 GMT 2
Hi Bob
In 1996 I bought a new Niva and it was not vibration free. I think what you say is true and provided it is minimal it will have to be acceptable. Mine is not at the moment.
Ronnie
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bobbyd
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Post by bobbyd on Oct 26, 2010 23:02:13 GMT 2
I lubed my drive train unis once a week for a few months which helped a bit. But
i found it is all about the allignment
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Nov 10, 2010 17:33:49 GMT 2
Hi
While busy on my Lada I noticed that the front prop is inline but the back one was out by one spline. I changed it to inline so when I'm on the road again we'll see if the vibes are better.
Ari
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darryn
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Post by darryn on Feb 4, 2011 8:50:07 GMT 2
I saw an article on a spanish website about two weeks ago (I'm desperately trying to remember where I found it), and it has a list of improvements to the latest iteration of the Niva. The Uni joints are now aligned at about 45deg. I'll try find the article, because it's moer interesting.
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darryn
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Post by darryn on Feb 4, 2011 9:24:48 GMT 2
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Post by Charles on Feb 4, 2011 9:56:25 GMT 2
Thank you
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