Jaco
New Niva Petrol Head
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Registered: Jul 11, 2010 15:15:00 GMT 2
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Post by Jaco on Oct 14, 2010 17:19:00 GMT 2
Hi,
I noticed my Lada's steering box is loose and thought I will just tighten it. On closer investigation, I found that the bolts are tight, but the chassis is torn/cracked where the box bolts on. Did any of you guys have this before? How should I go about fixing it? It is quite obvious to me that the chassis is not strong enough there.
Jaco
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Post by danie on Oct 14, 2010 17:51:40 GMT 2
Hi Jaco I found this pic about a crack repair elsewhere on the Web. No details have been supplied, but it looks if a square piece of flat sheeting has been welded in place to cover the crack: Regards Danie
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Post by marius on Oct 14, 2010 17:57:58 GMT 2
Hi Jaco
I hope you get sorted. There is some evidence that by fitting too large a tyre could also do some damage to the steering box in that way. What size are you currently running?
Regards Marius
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Post by Charles on Oct 14, 2010 21:09:12 GMT 2
Hi Jaco
On my lada it is also cracked. The previous owner fixed it very easily. Drilled a hole through the chassis and put a piece of flat bar on the other side and bolted it together. It still works. Not the proper way, but cheap and easy.
Charles
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bobbyd
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
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Post by bobbyd on Oct 14, 2010 23:27:29 GMT 2
The wrong wheel offset is vertually gauranteed to cause this, it is a known problem worldwide
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Jaco
New Niva Petrol Head
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Post by Jaco on Oct 15, 2010 14:30:18 GMT 2
My Lada runs on 195/80R15, is this the correct size?
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Post by Charles on Oct 15, 2010 15:56:53 GMT 2
Thats perfect.
Charles
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Post by marius on Oct 15, 2010 16:34:32 GMT 2
Hi Jaco
That size should be perfect - perhaps a previous owner had somehing else on or it could obviously be rust?
Regards Marius
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Post by danie on Oct 15, 2010 17:59:00 GMT 2
Hi Jaco
To my mind more body cracks are caused by Steering Boxes on which proper lubrication has been seriously neglected, than the number of body cracks caused by bigger wheels (like 205's), fitted on Ladas.
A combination of bigger wheels fitted to a Lada, and a steering box on which lubrication has been neglected, would obviously be fatal.
I would advice you to have a proper look at your steering box itself - you might find that it need some lubrication.....
Regards
Danie
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bobbyd
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
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Post by bobbyd on Oct 16, 2010 0:16:51 GMT 2
Are you on standard rims Jaco?
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Post by danie on Oct 16, 2010 17:08:15 GMT 2
Hi Jaco Today I have had another close look at the steering box on my Lada, and I thought that there could be a very simple explanation why some owners do not experience any body crack problems when bigger wheels are fitted to their Ladas. In my own case - I have bought my Lada , fitted with 205 / 70 / R15 wheels, and I have covered more than 60 000 kms with these tyres, since date of purchase. The rims' offset are completely different from the original rims, and I do not have any idea how many kms my Lada has covered since these rims were fitted by the previous owner. Fact is, although I am aware of some warnings about bigger tyres, I never experienced any premature component failure of any kind at all !While having a close look at the steering box on my Lada today, the steering wheel has been rotated wildly from one side to the other, and believe me, the steering box is sticking rock solid to the chassis - there are still no problems at all ! I took some pics of the steering box on my Lada, and would like to raise a few questions. (Sorry about the rust on my Lada - still need to remove rust and paint underneath ): This pic shows the bolts / nuts, which holds the steering box - viewed from the wheel arch. There are clearly no cracks in that area ! The shiny rod (bottom of pic) points to (what seems to be) an additional factory fitted plate. My question is - have all models been manufactured with double plates in that area ?This pic shows the Steering Box, bolted to the chassis beam. This beam also seem to be double plated - the shiny rod points at the "extra" plate, right next to the inner beam. My question is - have all Lada models been manufactured with a double plated beam, in that area ?Another view at the "double plated beam" Have all different models been manufactured like that???Needless to say, I believe somebody out there should be able to explain why I do not experience any problems with 205 tyres on my Lada ! regards Danie
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Post by marius on Oct 16, 2010 18:00:02 GMT 2
Hi Danie
From what you describe it would seem that there is no clear cut answer to what the cause could be. I could even be a combo of factors like you mentioned.
I know that some 4x4's are continously being abused - perhaps it could be just that?
Regards Marius
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Post by ronnie on Oct 16, 2010 19:33:21 GMT 2
Hi Danie
I think mine is like yours but as it is tossing it down I will check in the morning and let you know.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Oct 16, 2010 20:15:29 GMT 2
Hi Jaco / Marius / Ronnie Jaco, more information from your side would be very interesting. Perhaps you should just have a close look at the beam on your Lada, and just let us know whether it seem to be double plated, or not. Marius, to my mind abuse (by previous owners ) could cause problems like this . My Lada has never been abused since date of purchase, and I do not have any reason to believe that the car has been abused before. Thanks Ronnie - it will be very interesting if everyone just compare the Steering box mounting area on their Ladas with the pics (above) , and let us know if there is any difference... Regards Danie
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bobbyd
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
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Post by bobbyd on Oct 16, 2010 22:33:50 GMT 2
The wheel offset causes the most problems with this area, wider tyres (205) on standard offset rims shouldnt cause an issue, but as far as that doubler goes over here alot of Nivas have a curved doubler plate under the floor where the transfercase bolts up which was a Lada Aust thing so maybe some have doublers around the steering box too, I will have a look at mine later
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Post by ronnie on Oct 17, 2010 8:38:05 GMT 2
Hi Danie
It is a beautiful warm sunny day today after the rain we had last night. I have checked the steering box mounting and mine is the very same as yours. It would be very important to also make sure the box is always bolted tightly as otherwise the constant flexing of the box moving will slowly cause cracks ( I think).
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Oct 17, 2010 8:52:01 GMT 2
Hi Danie
I have just remembered when I took the Lada for roadworthy it failed because the steering idler was "flexing the chassis" and I would need to "weld a plate to the chassis". When I got home I discovered the idler was actually moving slightly. When I tightened it, the nuts barely moved even with a big bar, but it was enough to cure the problem!. I am sure if the Lada did enough kms like that it would have eventually have led to cracks.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Oct 17, 2010 10:43:19 GMT 2
Hi Danie I have just remembered when I took the Lada for roadworthy it failed because the steering idler was "flexing the chassis" and I would need to "weld a plate to the chassis". Ronnie Hi Ronnie You mean after paying all that money Jan did not even make an effort in getting the Lada roadworthy himself ? Anyway, I also thought it might be an idea just to make a triangular (sort of) plate with three holes, and just bolt it to the chassis. If this plate is wide enough, I think there should be no reason why it should be welded to the chassis. The plate should be wider than the beam - then the beam will prevent any movement inwards, and the nuts will prevent the plates from moving to the outside. I think a 5mm plate should be thick enough.... Regards Danie
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Post by ronnie on Oct 17, 2010 16:04:32 GMT 2
Hi Danie
When I collected the Lada I was told they did not have enough time to roadworthy it. I did get spare filters and a couple of switches I had requested in lieu of the roadworthy. Remember the bolt holes for the steering box have sleeves to stop the box section collapsing when you tighten the bolts. This may make it difficult to simply bolt plates on. It may be better to weld it. I think I noticed on your picture the nuts holding your box on are on the outside like mine were. One of these bolts will not come out as it hits the gearbox, so when you can, reverse them or you will need to cut it if you need to remove the steering box like I did.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Oct 17, 2010 18:03:08 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
Thanks for the tip regarding the bolt. I will rather "reverse" all the bolts then.
I will remove the steering box next weekend and start stripping the paint / removing all rust in the engine bay.
Time is a bit of a problem.......this weekend I had to work on a motorcycle....
Regards
Danie
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Post by ronnie on Oct 17, 2010 19:00:01 GMT 2
Hi Danie
When you reverse the bolts remember one or two of them(can`t remember how many) bear against the pitman arm at full lock and if too much thread protrudes you will not get full lock. You can easily adjust this with washers on the outside.
Ronnie
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Koos
Full Niva Petrol Head
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Post by Koos on Feb 20, 2011 20:19:08 GMT 2
Hey Guys
Is it possible (easy/hard) to remove the steering box drop arm alone, without needing to adjust something on the box?
The relay rod has some play on it, it doesn't seem to be the joint, but I'm am unable to tighten or loosen it, the joint just turns. I think there might be some wear on the drop arm, but because space is an issue I cant be sure. And I don't want to be too hard on it while connected to the steering box.
Also, is there an after-market replacement part for a relay rod and drop arm?
thanks Koos
PS, hope post is ok in this thread.
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Post by Charles on Feb 20, 2011 20:38:29 GMT 2
From what i have read it is almost impossible to remove the pitman arm in place. Put a pipe so you push the drag link in and then try and tighten it.
Hope it helps.
Charles
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Koos
Full Niva Petrol Head
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Post by Koos on Feb 21, 2011 8:22:08 GMT 2
Tried almost everything, but it just will not take. And like I said, I'm a little careful of causing damage to the steering box for obvious reasons.
I temporarily slided a rather thick washer (which I cut a slot in) under the nut, which seems to work for now. After that the joint didn't just turn, but because of limited space I was still unable to loosen the nut.
Koos
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Post by ronnie on Feb 21, 2011 8:50:07 GMT 2
Hi Koos
I am not sure which nut you are trying to remove. As long as it is not the nut holding the pitman arm on either use a hacksaw to cut the nut close to the threads or carefully use a baby angle grinder. you should then be able to remove the nut which you can replace, once you see what is the problem.
Ronnie
PS if you have a nut cracker you could use that though I doubt if many of us have one.
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Koos
Full Niva Petrol Head
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Post by Koos on Feb 21, 2011 10:16:59 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
Its the ball joint on the pitman arm that goes to the left.
Will use hack saw if all else fails.
Ok, so won't try to remove pitman arm.
Thanks
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Post by ronnie on Feb 21, 2011 15:25:19 GMT 2
Hi Koos
Now that I understand I would simply cut the nut off, then you can see what the problem is, correct it, and use a new nut.
Ronnie
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