|
Post by Charles on Sept 18, 2010 11:53:24 GMT 2
Hi all
After seeing the photos of Vladimir Putin's lada with the Opel engine, I searched for more ladas with gm engines. Turns out it isn't too a uncommon conversion. Now my question is, does anyone here know if a Opel engine bolts to the gearbox? I see they use the 2.0l 8v carb engine. We got it in the record and monza/kadette. Even if it needs an adapter plate I don't think it should be too much of a mission. These engines are almost bullet proof and have alot of power. They sell for about R3500. I think it will also return much better fuel economy. I hope you guys aren't going to kill me over the idea of putting German engineering into a great Russian design. At least they were on the same side during the war. ;D
Charles
|
|
|
Post by danie on Sept 18, 2010 12:29:26 GMT 2
Hi Charles Fiat and GM manufactured different versions of the same engine (1.7 and 1.9 L) but there might be slight differences between these engines . I am not 100% sure whether the GM engines, as well as the Fiat petrol engines will fit directly to the Lada gearboxes. You could also have a look at this thread: locsa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=technical&action=display&thread=97Regards Danie
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Sept 18, 2010 12:44:02 GMT 2
Hi Danie
We know the fiat diesel engine fits. At work i will look in the fiat workshop manual for a picture of the rear of the fiat engine and compare it to a opel engine. There is a guy in town that pulled a opel engine the other day so i can have a look there. Its a pity we don't have the fiay francise at work anymore. Would have made thinhs alot easyer. So what do uou think about the idea of a opel engine in a lada?
Charles
|
|
bobbyd
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 575
Registered: Oct 11, 2009 11:58:35 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by bobbyd on Sept 18, 2010 17:04:20 GMT 2
This has been done in a "real niva", the chev Nivas have the opel engine in but have a differnt brand of drive line. Strangely enough I am going through the motions to suss this engine swap out now, 2 or 2.2 litre 150 hp opel engines are very common here, also the 1.8 125hp, I have a spare gearbox and a friend who has a wrecking yard so when I finish my present project I will put some hours into this. Adapter plate, engine mounts and sump mod straight forward really, considerably more modern than the fiat twin cam and a whole lot more available
|
|
bobbyd
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 575
Registered: Oct 11, 2009 11:58:35 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by bobbyd on Sept 18, 2010 17:05:07 GMT 2
All 16 valve engines too!
|
|
|
Post by danie on Sept 18, 2010 17:40:42 GMT 2
Hi Charles / Bobby
I also considered installing a Fiat diesel engine a while ago, but the Fiat engine parts are extremely expensive - so I decided rather to forget about any engine transplant.
Charles, if you think local Lada engine spare parts are too expensive, you could obviously get your own parts from Russia. I am sure there are quite a number of Lada engines lying around - with your skills in mind, I think you could also easily rebuild a perfect (spare / standby ) engine for yourself........
Regards
Danie
|
|
|
Post by marius on Sept 18, 2010 17:59:54 GMT 2
Hi Bobby - the Opel engine looks like a nice fit - and as Danie says the Fiat engine parts are very expensive over here - which will make the Opel a very good option I would think. They are very economical and reliable.
A lot can be said about the Niva engine's reliability though and is well proven - even if it is ancient and underpowered. The ancient simplicity of the Niva is very attractive to me - maintanance is a breeze and new high tech engines might require high tech maintanace.
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Sept 18, 2010 18:48:40 GMT 2
Hi all
The only reason why I looked into this is because the opel engines are very reliable. It will also be alot more power than the lada engine and more economical. It will also make the lada much better offroad. You will also have alot more power at low revs. The opel engines have proved themselves over the years. I think a opel engine with a carb isn't more technical than a lada engine. Also all engine spares is freely avalible.
This is just a idea. I don't even know if when I have a lada I will do a conversion. Maby if the lada engine goes completely. But the better fuel economy and the extra power is very tempting.
Charles
P.s I would prefer not to have a adaper plate fitted. So if the opel engine bolts straight on it would be perfect.
|
|
|
Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Sept 18, 2010 19:14:38 GMT 2
You Guys are all forgeting one tiny thing, the front diff bolts onto the bottom of the engine.
Ari
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Sept 18, 2010 19:23:33 GMT 2
Hi Ari
I think as long as you can alter the sump of the new engine there should not be a problem. I for one would rather stick with the Lada motor. I can easily exceed the speed limit and idle up hill in low so what more do I really need. I would rather spend the money on something else. Oh I forgot I don`t have any spare money!!!
Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Sept 18, 2010 20:10:42 GMT 2
;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Sept 19, 2010 9:10:30 GMT 2
Hi all
I remember doing a fiat diesel engine a awhile ago everything was very expensive. The funny thing is, it isn't even a great engine,
Ronnie I agree with you. One doesn't need much more than that. I just think it would be nice to have more than enough power on tap and knowing you can get all your engines spares at the local spares shop. The only way I would ever do a modification like this is if the standard engine is completely finished, That is if the opel conversion isn't too big a hassle. Otherwise it would be alot easyer to find another lada engine. I have seen many conversions that looks fantastic but just doesn't work. Also most of the 4x4 guys I have talked to says to stay away from conversions.
Charles
|
|
Hercules
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Lada - your peace of mind to take on the world's vast landscapes.
Posts: 785
Location: Gauteng
Town: Benoni
Registered: Oct 2, 2009 11:55:41 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Hercules on Sept 19, 2010 10:48:32 GMT 2
Hi All.
I agree any mod can be a real pain in the .... when a break down occurred in the bush or untamed far away places.
Regards.
Hercules
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Sept 20, 2010 13:16:00 GMT 2
I talked to a guy this mornig who does alot of offroading. He says the things that loves to break on conversions is the thing that has been spesially made up. Most of the time engine mountings.
Charles
|
|
bobbyd
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 575
Registered: Oct 11, 2009 11:58:35 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by bobbyd on Sept 20, 2010 14:02:42 GMT 2
That is true charles and in my experience sometimes when backyarders attack big projects they end up getting let down by things such as second hand orings, second hand hose clamps, amatuer welds etc etc. A syndrome I refer to as "spending a fortune saveing money"
I think most four wheel drivers say stay away from mods because there are very few underpowered later model 4X4s, new equipment is great, no doubt about it powerfull,comfy,fast,quiet,smooth,available,vibration free etc etc etc, Just not cheap! And this type of engine (opel) is thirty year old technology, well and truely proven
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Sept 20, 2010 16:08:37 GMT 2
Hi Bobby
I see that syndrome almost every day. Penny wise, pound foolish. I have seen people that will rather spend money on having a rattle fixed than having brake pads replaced.
Yes The opel engine is very good. I would love to see one where the engine and gearbox is out. If you maby have (or find) the specs of stuff like, flywheel, clutch and adapterplate please let me know.
Charles
|
|
|
Post by danie on Sept 20, 2010 18:12:29 GMT 2
Hi Charles
On which side of the Opel petrol engine is the starter located ?
If on the passenger side, one could try to fit the Fiat 131 bellhousing of which the starter gets bolted to the passenger side.
On some of the Fiat 131 bellhousings the starters have been bolted to the bellhousing on the driver's side.
So depending on the location of the starter motor on the Opel engine, one could just try a Fiat bellhousing which will suit the starter location ........and apparently the Lada gearboxes are a straight fit to the Fiat 131 bellhousings.
Regards
Danie
|
|
Hercules
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Lada - your peace of mind to take on the world's vast landscapes.
Posts: 785
Location: Gauteng
Town: Benoni
Registered: Oct 2, 2009 11:55:41 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Hercules on Sept 20, 2010 18:44:43 GMT 2
Hi All.
Why not look and fit the Opel Rekord 2lt motor with gearbox and just mod the intermediate shaft. Less problems because you use the Opel clutch, starter and alternator. All items easy availlable because it can be quite a battle to get a Fiat 131 bellhousing.
Personally I will rather go with a Isuzu motor or a Mazda 2lt Ldv motor and gearbox. It is a bakkie motor and more torque than a pasenger car engine. It should last longer as it is build to work harder.
Regards.
Hercules
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Sept 20, 2010 19:22:18 GMT 2
I also thought about using the isuzu gearbox. The opel engine bolts strait on and is more powerful and economical. Modifying the intermediate shaft wouldnt be that difficult.
Charles
|
|
Hercules
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Lada - your peace of mind to take on the world's vast landscapes.
Posts: 785
Location: Gauteng
Town: Benoni
Registered: Oct 2, 2009 11:55:41 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by Hercules on Sept 20, 2010 19:29:48 GMT 2
Hi Charles.
The other idea I got is maybe a Mazda motor with an auto box. Should be a pleasure driving an automatic Lada.
Use to drive a auto Pajero and what a pleasure it was on and off road.
Regards.
Hercules
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Sept 20, 2010 19:41:05 GMT 2
I don't like a auto 4x4, but I agree they are fantastic offroad. Just remember the pajero is in a class of its own. How long is a lada gearbox? Only problem I can imagine with a more powerful engine is that I think you would want to cruise at a higher speed.
Charles
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Sept 20, 2010 20:44:22 GMT 2
Hi All I will simply stick with my Lada motor. I like its basic simplicity Ronnie
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Sept 20, 2010 20:58:20 GMT 2
Ronnie I agree. A conversion looks tempting, but i wil oneday also stick to standard. I think it would be the safest bet. The opel idea is something intresting, but at the end of the day I dont want a GM niva.
Charles
|
|
|
Post by danie on Sept 21, 2010 5:39:57 GMT 2
The problem with GM products is that GM South Africa does not carry stock of any parts on any model, 10 years after a specific model has been discontinued from the market.
I once owned a Bedford truck, and GM used to be the Agents. I eventually could not find any spare parts for the truck, and have been told by a Bedford specialist that GM simply destroyed all Bedford parts in stock because of their "10 year policy"
I also remember that an Opel owner ( I think he owned a Rekord) once complained in the Car magazine that he could not get any parts from GM for his car - his car was just over 10 years old. General Motors SA responded to the complaint by confirming that they do not carry stock of any parts on models 10 years after it has been discontinued from the market.
Regards
Danie
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Sept 21, 2010 10:05:08 GMT 2
Hi Danie
Yes that is a problem. Even us as a Nissan garage don't have to stock parts for cars older than five years. At least the factory still make parts for them and have stock for even the older parts. I know Nissan stops making parts when a car is ten years out of production, but at least they don't destroy the stuff they have in stock.
Charles
|
|
darryn
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Ruchnoy Protivotankovyy Granatomyot
Posts: 713
Registered: Mar 5, 2010 21:50:09 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by darryn on Sept 27, 2010 21:53:59 GMT 2
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Sept 27, 2010 22:02:10 GMT 2
Hi Darryn
Is that from the lada parts catalog?
Charles
|
|
darryn
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Ruchnoy Protivotankovyy Granatomyot
Posts: 713
Registered: Mar 5, 2010 21:50:09 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by darryn on Sept 28, 2010 17:42:47 GMT 2
From LadaWorld- but the mod is actually from the 21215, which is the long wheel base, as far as I know. They seem to have just added funky animations.
|
|
spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
|
Post by spikes on Sept 28, 2010 19:18:27 GMT 2
Thanks Darryn, Most interesting! This could help solve the vibrations as well Regards Spikes
|
|
|
Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Oct 2, 2010 20:05:52 GMT 2
Hi
Those brackets are from the 21215 , the diesel version which had a peugot derived 1.9L motor
Ari
|
|