Hein
Junior Niva Petrol Head
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Post by Hein on Aug 31, 2010 23:02:55 GMT 2
Hi All I got hold of a carb off a 1700 Lada that is still in very good condition. I would like to fit this to my 1600 Lada, but since I got my Lada with a thirsty 36DCD Weber which I replaced with a VW carb, I have a few questions. 1. The manual only shows what 2 of the pipe connections circled in yellow is for. What is the 3rd for? 2. I cannot identify what the hose connector is for that I circled in red. 3. Is there supposed to be a Bakelite spacer between the carb and the inlet manifold or is it just a gasket? If somebody with a 1700 with original carb can send me some pictures it will really be appreciated as I can then work out if I could use the original linkage or stick with my made-up unit. Thanks Hein
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Post by ronnie on Sept 1, 2010 10:31:33 GMT 2
Hi Hein
The red connection is for the crankcase ventilation and connects adjacent to the dipstick. the yellow connections are 1 for advance retard on the distributor and 2 for exhaust emission controls which you can blank off if not required. There should be a Bakelite spacer under the carb.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Sept 1, 2010 10:39:37 GMT 2
Hi Hein Here is the photos you were looking for Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Sept 1, 2010 10:40:42 GMT 2
Hi Hein Here is photo no 2 Ronnie
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Hein
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Post by Hein on Sept 1, 2010 10:55:29 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
Thanks Ronnie. It looks like I would be able to use the new linkage, will just have to get a new cable made up.
Do you think I will have a problem with jetting since the carb is off a 1700?
I can't wait to fit the carb as I got hold of a exhaust gas analyzer to setup the fuel mixture. My goal is to get close to 10km/l. With the new carb and the dizzy from Danie I might get close to it.
Thanks
Hein
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Post by ronnie on Sept 1, 2010 11:44:07 GMT 2
Hi Hein
I can`t help you with the jetting but I don`t think it will be a problem. Some one I am sure will help you.
Ronnie
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Hercules
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Lada - your peace of mind to take on the world's vast landscapes.
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Post by Hercules on Sept 1, 2010 19:37:02 GMT 2
Hi Hein.
The top two fittings in the yellow circle are connected together with a tpiece and the connected th a fitting on the front of the intake manifult to operate the exhaust gas recirculation.
The fitting in the red circle is connected to the oil seperator/breather on the engine where the dipstick is located.
Regards.
Hercules
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Sept 1, 2010 19:41:50 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie Nice tappet cover and airbox. Ari
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Post by ronnie on Sept 1, 2010 19:51:13 GMT 2
Hi Ari
It is easier to see in the dark ;D
Ronnie
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Hercules
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Lada - your peace of mind to take on the world's vast landscapes.
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Post by Hercules on Sept 1, 2010 20:06:29 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie.
My carb is mounted only on a gasket and got no bakelite spacer.
Regards.
Hercules
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Post by ronnie on Sept 1, 2010 20:10:55 GMT 2
Hi Hercules
The spacer is only there to keep the heat away from the carb. if yours has none and gives no problems then they are probably not necessary
Ronnie
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Hein
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Post by Hein on Sept 1, 2010 22:19:19 GMT 2
Hi Guys
I consulted the development engineers at work today and they advised that I use a Bakelite spacer with gaskets on both sides as this will reduce heat transfer to the carb that will in return improve petrol consumption.
As soon as the strike is over I will get a tool made up to make the gaskets since I could only find a 32/36 weber gasket tool at work. Quite a advantage when you work for probably the biggest gasket manufacturing company in the world.
Hein
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Post by danie on Sept 2, 2010 6:28:01 GMT 2
Hi Hein Would your company be able to make a thicker cylinder head gasket for a Lada ? ( I will probably need a thicker gasket in order to reduce engine compression, for the Supercharger installation.)
Another question - do your company sell Bakelite which can be used to make up a spacer between a carb and a intake manifold ? ( I am thinking of mounting a carb directly to the intake of the Supercharger )
I will post pics of a Lada intake manifold this evening, to discuss another possible source of heat which could cause heavier fuel consumption.
Regards
Danie
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Hein
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Post by Hein on Sept 2, 2010 19:27:24 GMT 2
Hi Danie
Unfortunately Federal Mogul does not make custom gaskets and the tools to press the components for the Lada is at the plant in Romania. (I also hoped it is local)
I do know that it can be ordered from a decent spares shop. There is some other options. You can use 2 gaskets or get a alu shim made up that is identical in shape as the Lada gasket. I have seen one that was made for a engine that had a turbo conversion on.
The Bakelite that I got at the factory was off-cuts from spot welding fixtures and is 3mm thick. I will use 1.2mm fiber gaskets on both sides of the spacer. I can send you a piece that will be big enough for the base of your carb.
Hein
PS: The Payen (Federal Mogul) lada top gasket part number is BH700
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Post by danie on Sept 2, 2010 21:56:33 GMT 2
Hi Hein Regarding your comment about less heat to the carb in order to improve fuel consumption: On the intake manifolds of the 1700 carb models, (I assume the intake manifolds on the 1600's are the same) there are small water channels which permanently channelize hot water through the intake manifold: And this is the hot water outlet on the Manifold: According to a professional local engineer not all cars do have hot water channels like that on it's intake manifolds. In fact, some cars does not have any hot water channels at the inside of the intake manifolds at all. Anyway, those water channels serve two purposes : 1. To heat up the intake manifolds during very cold conditions, (probably not necessary in warmer areas of our country) 2. Believe it or not - to cool the Intake Manifold down (the Intake Manifold is located very closely to the Exhaust Manifold / Cylinder Head , and does get very hot ) I know it sounds a bit strange - but the hot water which enters the Intake Manifold via the Cylinder Head, also cools the Intake Manifold down ! A lot of things have previously been discussed under the "Possible Cooling Modifications" thread - but I often wonder if cooling mods to the Intake Manifolds on Ladas would not improve fuel consumption as well. To my mind, the following mods might improve cooling of the manifold, and might improve fuel consumption: 1. To install a direct water line, from the Hot Water Outlet of the Intake Manifold, (see second pic) to the Top Radiator hose. (The current system circulates the hot water directly to the back end of the water pump - which means the water does not have a chance to cool down before it re-enters the engine block). This mod could also improve cooling in general. 2. The water chamber inside the intake manifold could perhaps also be utilized better by means of the two big holes - located underneath the Intake Manifold (see pic below), and by using an independent (smaller?) cooling system - in this case the small holes (see first pic) could be closed completely, and one (or both) big plugs could be removed, and the holes be used as water inlets......: (The second plug is located at the opposite side) To cut a long story short -like a cooler carb, I think a cooler Intake manifold (in warmer areas of our country) might also improve fuel consumption.........who knows? ? Regards Danie
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Ventzel
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Post by Ventzel on Sept 2, 2010 22:58:48 GMT 2
Hi Hein,
You must have the plastic spacer with gaskets on both sides. It will not reduce your petrol consumption definitely; when the engine is running, the carb is cold - touch it with fingers and you will feel it. Even there is a short pipe mounted to the base of the carb connected to two rubber hoses - one coming from the manifold, the second one leading to the water pump - it purpose is to warm up the area around the throttle and improve the temperature of your air/fuel mixture. This pipe is missing on your picture, it is missing on the other two pictures with the gorgeous red air filter housing and tappet cover either. There is strange modification made of plumbing pipes instead.
The carb gets quickly hot when the engine it switched off and that's why the plastic spacer is there - to slow down the temperature jump. With some cases of overheating I had to skim the bottom of the carb, bent in rainbow shape.
The carburettor for 1700 (brand SOLEX) is better then the old 1600 (brand OZON), no doubt. But your troubles are far from over. OZON has one inlet pipe only, SOLEX has inlet and outlet ones. Then you have to ensure long metal pipe underneath the car, back to the petrol tank. That mean you need 1700 fuel gauge. You need 1700 accelerator cable. At least the electromagnetic idle valves on both models are different and their operational devices are different.
Rgds
Ventz
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Hein
Junior Niva Petrol Head
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Post by Hein on Sept 2, 2010 23:03:23 GMT 2
Danie
Now you got me thinking!!! So the sencible reason for the water ports will be to keep the manufold at a "stable" tempreture.
I think I try to find a spare manufold to do the mods on as the ports on the head side will have to be pluged. The mods on the piping side should be easy with a T.
Hein
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Post by ronnie on Sept 3, 2010 12:36:52 GMT 2
Hi Ventz
On the " Red " one the heater connection for the carb was missing when I bought the Lada. The copper pipe is there instead of a long water pipe. It is neater and is less prone to leakage.The copper pipes were installed to get water flowing from the back of the head. Danie will tell you the history of this Modification.
Ronnie
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