waynef
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Post by waynef on May 31, 2012 12:55:55 GMT 2
Hi guys, still trying to find the right Lada for me. Could you guys help me with the pro's and con's of carb vs fuel injection
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spikes
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Post by spikes on May 31, 2012 13:20:30 GMT 2
Hi Wayne about 370 TBI were imported while about 2000 carbed models were imported. The carb model is easier to diagnose problems on as very few (if any) ODB scanners are available locally to read the ECU memory. Owners have to resort to reading the Engine warning light flashes. It works well according to Spencer Cash BUT it will not indicate fuel level left in the fuel tank (See post by Ihar) Chances are better of finding a carb model but if you come across a TBI and its is good condition grab it if the price is right Expect to pay r35-r45k for any really good 1700 or 1700 TBI
Spikes
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waynef
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Post by waynef on May 31, 2012 13:36:22 GMT 2
just to clear a Lada 1.7i is a TBI model? more importantly how easy is it to repair if things go pear shaped of do you have to replace the fuel injection unit and at what cost.
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Ihar
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Lada Niva Driver
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Post by Ihar on May 31, 2012 14:19:21 GMT 2
Yes the 1.7i is a TBI, which is a single point injection into the throttle body. I have driven both and prefer the carb Charles will tell you that a well set up carb will give you more power than a TBI and I am inclined to agree with him. Tjeers Steve
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spikes
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Post by spikes on May 31, 2012 14:33:13 GMT 2
The NIVA 1.7i's in RSA are all TBI models. The TBI unit is remarkably resilient and the ECU will make adjustments. Most spares are locally available even down to sensors. Other than that the TBI unit itself has less moving parts to wear it does not offer any real advantage over the carb models. I only bought the TBI because of its very good condition and the warranty that the selling dealer was giving. And they made good on it when the gearbox started acting up after I had the car for a weekend
PM Spencer Cash, he has the most experience with repairing the TBI unit of all of us local okeys
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spikes
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Post by spikes on May 31, 2012 14:34:15 GMT 2
Look at the thread "Lada's for sale" there is a new link there with a few to choose from
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Ihar
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Post by Ihar on May 31, 2012 19:13:13 GMT 2
Spencer is unlikely to answer PM's as he is seldom on the forum, if you want to chat to him PM me your number and I will get him to call you or get his permission to give you his number.
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Post by Charles on May 31, 2012 19:38:09 GMT 2
Hi Wayne
Yes Ihar is right, carbs will give more power and can be lighter on fuel than a fuel injected car. Also problems can be easily sorted and its cheaper to repair. I love carbs. So simple and so efficient. Also if you happen to get stuck next to the road you will most likely to make a tempory repair on a carb car and get home, the same can not be said for a fuel injected car.
Charles
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Post by danie on Jun 1, 2012 6:36:52 GMT 2
Spencer is unlikely to answer PM's as he is seldom on the forum, if you want to chat to him PM me your number and I will get him to call you or get his permission to give you his number. Hi Ihar Spencer has once passed comments about a specialist (not Lada related) in the Jo'burg area who knows how to sort out problems on TBI Ladas. I am not sure whether the specialist's exact contact details have been revealed at this forum. Would it be possible to get contact details from Spencer, for publishing at the Forum ? More than five years ago a formal TBI model owner from Cape Town has passed comments at the old (crashed) forum about a high fuel consumption problem on his Lada. He drove the Lada all the way from Cape Town to on of the local Suppliers, left the Lada at the Supplier for a couple of weeks to be repaired properly, and flew back to Cape Town. After the fuel problem has been "sorted", the owner flew back to the Supplier at great expense, and drove the Lada all the way back to Cape Town....... just to discover that there was no improvement on the fuel consumption at all ! According to the owner he then confronted the Supplier - who then admitted that he "did not know how to sort problems at a TBI Lada ". Danie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jun 1, 2012 7:00:17 GMT 2
The people Spencer used details are in the the thread about his NIVA. Company is in Krugersdorp
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Jun 1, 2012 8:15:36 GMT 2
i would take an injection over a carb any day
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jun 1, 2012 8:39:21 GMT 2
From my own experience with my TBI compared to the problems reported with carb models fuelling I have to agree with Jan
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Post by ronnie on Jun 1, 2012 8:59:02 GMT 2
Hi All
I also would have Injection before carb.
Ronnie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jun 1, 2012 9:03:31 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie, Good to see you on site again! Spikes
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Post by Charles on Jun 1, 2012 10:03:10 GMT 2
Then it must be a multi point injected Niva.
Charles
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Post by danie on Jun 1, 2012 18:22:43 GMT 2
I stand to be corrected , but I believe in many cases so called "carb problems" which are causing "high fuel consumption" are not not "carb problems" at all.
In many cases owners should rather do a compression test at the engine - they will most probably find that the engine compression is too low - due to leaking valves, worn piston rings, or worn piston sleeves.
Should the above mentioned components be worn, it means that the owner will have to "put foot" in order to squeeze some performance from the Lada. This will lead to high fuel consumption, while the carb is still in perfect working order.
Danie
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Post by Charles on Jun 1, 2012 18:58:19 GMT 2
Danie I agree with you 100%
Another common problem on carb cars is that the throttle does not open fully.
Charles
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Jun 2, 2012 6:41:58 GMT 2
Danie, i agree with the compression issues, but they are in most cases related to the carb problems: too rich --> way too much fuel --> fuel isn't burned --> Fuel gets in the engine oil --> serious worn piston rings and crank shaft bearings are direct related to this problem
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Post by danie on Jun 2, 2012 8:15:17 GMT 2
Hi Jan
In my Lada's case - when I bought the Lada the km reading on the odometer was about 97 000 km, and when I stripped the engine some time ago, I discovered that oversize pistons have been fitted to the Lada.
In other words, the engine has been rebuilt, and the cylinder sleeves have been re-bored at a lower km reading than 97 000km.
The carb on my Lada is definately not new, and I have no reason to believe that the original carb has been replaced before.
In short - at the time when I stripped the engine the fuel consumption was about 9.5 km/L ,and I am quite convinced that in my Lada's case, the carb has outlasted the original lifespan of the engine.
Danie
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ladanivabelgium
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Post by ladanivabelgium on Jun 2, 2012 9:10:22 GMT 2
Danie, i have several 17i (both single point and multi point) Niva's in service with + 150 000 km. They all are still in good condition. Sadly i can not say that about 1600's with around or + 100 000 km. When i compare the 1600's with only gasoline as fuel and those with also LPG i can say that the LPG engines are better. Therefore i make the conclusion that the carb is the part to point at. LPG engines do have more valve issues
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