chrisjan
New Niva Petrol Head
Only in a NIVA
Posts: 20
Registered: May 22, 2011 13:50:51 GMT 2
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Post by chrisjan on Jun 18, 2011 16:17:36 GMT 2
HI i am looking for new or second hand rear shocks for my lada 1700.
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Post by ronnie on Jun 18, 2011 17:20:17 GMT 2
Hi Chrisjan
I doubt if you will find second hand ones , but here are part nos for new which Have been reported to fit. Front Gabriel KUDU 56712 Rear Gabriel KUDU 56102
Ronnie
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spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
Registered: Apr 19, 2010 19:39:51 GMT 2
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Post by spikes on Jun 18, 2011 19:22:47 GMT 2
Hi Chrisjan Try Autoquip the tyre people, they stock Monroe shocks. As far as I know the KUBU line has been discontinued by gabriel regards Spikes
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Post by marius on Jun 18, 2011 19:44:05 GMT 2
Hi Spikes I think it is the people who sell Monroe's that is spreading that rumour. I heard exactly the same from another guy but further investigation proved otherwise. I was told the Gabriel Safari shocks are discontinued but apparently they are not! Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jun 18, 2011 19:48:08 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I have safari shocks on mine I will check in the morning to see what numbers are on them. As long as you have a reference number you can always get an equivalent from the catalogue..
Ronnie
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spikes
Moderator
Posts: 3,689
Location: Mpumalanga
Town: Nelspruit
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Post by spikes on Jun 18, 2011 19:50:55 GMT 2
Hi Marius I treid my level best to get KUBUs for my Ford Ranger (with diff-lock) but got he same story from from Autozone, Midas, Speedy and Numbi Auto (ford agents). Guess what I bought. Gabriel Safaris, through the Ford agents fitted at the same price as what Autozone could supply them. This was in Feb 2010 Spikes PS the Bongol came with the Monroes fitted. I find them very good off-road but hard on fair gravel roads PPS All.. please post if you find KUBUs to fit the NIVA
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Post by ronnie on Jun 19, 2011 14:49:32 GMT 2
Hi Chrisjan
I have checked my shocks and they are Gabriel technomatic G 45006 200509. Hope this helps
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jun 19, 2011 15:14:38 GMT 2
Spikes I will see what I can find - I do know that Johan only stocks Gabriel.
I am surprised you have not broken the top front mounts with the Monroe's. Too firm for my liking.
Marius
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Hercules
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Lada - your peace of mind to take on the world's vast landscapes.
Posts: 785
Location: Gauteng
Town: Benoni
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Post by Hercules on Jun 20, 2011 20:15:46 GMT 2
Marius, I did broke both the front top mounts with gabriel safari shocks. I repaired it with proper steel and fitted monroe gasriders. A bid hard on the road but what a difference in handling. The monroe's just handle superb and no body rolling in corners.
Regards.
Hercules
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Post by hotstuff on Jun 20, 2011 20:33:48 GMT 2
MONROES ARE SIMILAR TO ORIGINAL SHOCKS FOR LADAS, GAS OIL RIDERS ARE BEST
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Post by marius on Jun 20, 2011 21:08:34 GMT 2
Marius, I did broke both the front top mounts with gabriel safari shocks. I repaired it with proper steel and fitted monroe gasriders. A bid hard on the road but what a difference in handling. The monroe's just handle superb and no body rolling in corners. Regards. Hercules Hi Hercules The same happened to me with my Safaris BUT I will give our terrible farm road the blame - very bumpy! Marius
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Post by marius on Jun 20, 2011 21:10:59 GMT 2
Spike I gather you are only looking for Kubus for the Niva or would you like some for the Ranger?
If you are - let me know what model Ranger you are driving.
Marius
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Post by jaco1978 on Jul 11, 2011 12:48:10 GMT 2
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Post by ronnie on Jul 11, 2011 17:48:22 GMT 2
Hi Jaco
The shock mountings on the Niva are not the most robust construction so I would not use a shock which is very hard unless you are going to strengthen the mounts.
Ronnie
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Post by jaco1978 on Jul 11, 2011 18:00:03 GMT 2
Ronnie, t'nx for the heads-up regarding the mountings. As I mentioned, I have the Safari's. Are they regarded stiff shocks? If so, I might have to investigate the mountings. Perhaps, even, look to pre-empt the whole thing and re-enforce them.
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Post by ronnie on Jul 11, 2011 19:14:05 GMT 2
Hi Jaco
I have Gabriel of some kind or other on mine, and I think they are too hard.
Ronnie
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Ladaniva
Full Niva Petrol Head
A Lada Niva for a new lease of life
Posts: 240
Registered: Apr 1, 2011 21:33:06 GMT 2
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Post by Ladaniva on Jul 11, 2011 22:32:12 GMT 2
Hi Jaco,
I was at Sun City two weeks ago for a weekend (Bakabung) but then did not know you are living/working there at the time! I worked at Ruighoek mine on the road to Derdepoort a few (sorry quite a few) years ago. Dont know if you know the area there?
Please let us know which of the new green Gabriels will fit the Lada because I want to replace mine soon. I also had Safaris on my Lada for years (rear), but can not remember which ones. They worked very well in my opinion, but I will definately use Ronnies advice and strenghthen them while the Niva is stil in "boude en blaaie".
Regards,
Fanus
If the spec of the green Gabriels is anything to go by it only means the good times will only be much better!
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Post by jaco1978 on Jul 12, 2011 12:26:43 GMT 2
Fanus, I have an idea where Derdepoort is but I have not been there (yet). Feel free to drop by if you are in the area again. I live and work here so I can organize a staff-visitors pass for you and yours. Saying that, they are cutting down on staff-visitor's perks so I do not how long I will still have the perk of getting the passes. Real sad. I have put the re-enforcing on the list of the tings to get done whilst in Josie. I will try to get a bit more info on the HDP's and shocks in general to educate myself a lil on the matter. The Safari HDP's look like they have just been launched so reviews are hard to come by. But I agree, it looks promising. Regards, Jaco
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Ladaniva
Full Niva Petrol Head
A Lada Niva for a new lease of life
Posts: 240
Registered: Apr 1, 2011 21:33:06 GMT 2
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Post by Ladaniva on Sept 11, 2011 22:01:35 GMT 2
Hi Jaco,
Thanks for the offer of the pass, but not to worry I prefer to pay (so that you guys who do not exploit the system may rather entertain the family for years to come). Next time when I go in that direction I will certainly show my face there.
I must say I was really surprised to hear that the Lada shock mounts breaks, because my Lada was realy extended very often in the past (often competed with it) and on more than one occasion sat with the dashboard in my lap due to unsuspected impacts. Not to mention the times I just waited for the Niva to fall right back on its roof so high the wheels were off the ground (something always to keep in mind with the short 4 x 4's (like Lada’s and Suzukis). I am not even talking steep inclines here!
I must also admit I just do not get it why people will fit hard shocks on a 4 x 4 - the road is bumpy enough already! A reason I think many people go for harder shock absorbers is that they think the vehicle will absorb impact better. This is not what a shock is designed for - this is the work of the springs in a vehicle. You should in any case know that you are not very good if you fly through the air and land with an impact (this is normally what happened to me while making an accident ;D).
Just watch the Paris to Dakar on TV and make out for yourself if a hard shock and hard impact when landing makes you fast - I think not. The secret of shock absorbers is actually quite simple - if the wheels are on the ground more the vehicle does not break or handle funny, and shocks that are too hard keep the wheels in the air more because it does not absorb shock (and will break even the mountings). It is all about traction, and as long as the wheels have traction you are in control. Good shock absorbers fitted and adjusted correctly for the vehicle it is fitted to must actually feel soft – give a good ride - but keep on working well (by staying in the design temperature range). This is where gas shocks are so good (I think they often call it fast acting, which is just another way of putting it that the wheel stay on the ground more or most of the trip offroad) and the gas also conducts the heat more efficiently, keeping the shock working as designed. An overheated shock cannot do its work - to absorb shock.
Remember the spring is the thing that keeps the wheel on the ground and to absorb impact - it is not the work of the shock absorber. The shock absorber just prevents the wheel from hopping around uncontrolled.
Another way of looking at it: a tyre inflated with too much air will make a car jump all over the road when you hit a corrugated stretch of road at speed. Why? Because the shock is not absorbed by the hard tyre. This is what happens to a shock absorber too, if it is too hard the wheel will jump up and down in an uncontrolled fashion. The whole car actually takes the strain!
I will take a guess: if your car go around a corner better with harder shocks fitted it is because your old shocks were shot or the shock absorber is too hard for the car by far (I hate to think that the spring is too soft for your type of driving). 4 x 4 are generally not build to go around corners fast - they are built to have good wheel articulation and the right gear ratio for the obstacles you may encounter.
The only reason why you should fit harder shocks than the shocks your Niva came out with is if you fit a heavier wheel (read wider) - the shock must be adjusted to cope with the heavier weight it has to control the shock of. Logically you will have to fit harder/stiffer springs too. A significant negative wheel offset (compared to the design offset) may also require a harder setting (the wheel moved outwards, relative to the point where the shock absorber is mounted, giving more leverage - the shock must work harder to control the jumping wheel. The shock absorber gets hotter too, making it less efficient (a bigger shock absorber may even be required because the heat build-up may be significantly more while driving off-road – a wider wheel (heavier) often goes with a more negative wheel offset – two problems for the price of one for the shock absorber).
Regards,
Fanus
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Post by Charles on Sept 11, 2011 22:31:38 GMT 2
Thanks for that Fanus. It explains it very good. When are we going to see pics of your niva?
Charles
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Post by jaco1978 on Sept 11, 2011 23:34:07 GMT 2
Fanus, I have partly used/responded to your post here: locsa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=technical&thread=818Also, the passes is there to be used as I have 20/month. In 6 years I have only gotten close to it once with using 16. But it is your call. In the end, a visit with the Lada would be great...either, or. ;D ...as with anyone else. ;D
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Post by jaco1978 on Sept 11, 2011 23:35:20 GMT 2
As Charles mentioned, thank you for the detailed explanation.
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Ladaniva
Full Niva Petrol Head
A Lada Niva for a new lease of life
Posts: 240
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Post by Ladaniva on Sept 12, 2011 19:15:54 GMT 2
Hi Charles,
Yes, I must admit that it takes quite a lot longer than anticipated to get my Lada to any stage of completion currently. Some of the delays (for interest sake only):
1). My preferred tuner (you may read also only tuner) is taking much longer to complete the Viper he is fitting twin turbos to for a client. Wrong part after wrong part delivered from the USA to overhaul the engine and to make it stronger (hard to believe people require that much power, but they do and the pay for it too!). Even the Porche he is fitting an extra six injectors to with the other ECU is there for more than three months now. The long and the short: if you modify you do not rush anything or take chances (or let people experiment on you), from there that I am patient and particular who work on my Niva).
2.) My 10mm SS plates to fit the supercharger to the engine were stolen by an uppie that absconded at the one engineering shop after the owner reprimanded him about shoddy workmanship.
3).I am currently very busy with the global implementation of a computer system/software at work.
4). I basically overhauled and modified anything that I think may take strain due to the extra power - I am also going back to the correct wheel offset (so by the way; I have very good looking Suzuki mags for sale now)
Conclusion: Modify is not for the sissies.
Regards,
Fanus
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Sept 12, 2011 19:19:32 GMT 2
Post a pic of the wheels.
Ari
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Ladaniva
Full Niva Petrol Head
A Lada Niva for a new lease of life
Posts: 240
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Post by Ladaniva on Sept 12, 2011 19:32:46 GMT 2
Hi Jaco, Shoe! there are many places to read on the forum! I have read your other post now. I also contemplated the lifting of my Lada, but only for the looks. I must admit I must still find an obstacle I could not get over with my standard Lada, but there is always a first time! My motto is that if a Suzuki and a Lada can not get over they will have to bring a Unimog, and that will cost! I actualy still have the gabriel lifter shocks (works with air that you pump into it), because I only wanted to lift the back, because the Lada normally looks lower at the back. The benifit of this arangement is that you keep your standard shocks and suspension configuration (safety and reliability), and lift the vehicle when required (like when showing off in town - because a Niva does not have to show off offroad ;D. Even a hydraulic cylinder will do this show-off job!! My cent's worth - have not done it yet. Regards, Fanus
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Ladaniva
Full Niva Petrol Head
A Lada Niva for a new lease of life
Posts: 240
Registered: Apr 1, 2011 21:33:06 GMT 2
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Post by Ladaniva on Sept 12, 2011 20:53:40 GMT 2
Hi All,
A must watch on Youtube to appreciate what the role of springs are and why there are shocks on a car (that work well together). I think it also shows what it is to be brave and sensible at the same time - adrenalin permitting.
Enjoy! (It is worth the wait to buff or to watch it on your friend’s fast computer).
Regards,
Fanus
Fanus
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vincentc
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Posts: 1,130
Registered: Mar 16, 2011 17:59:16 GMT 2
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Post by vincentc on Sept 12, 2011 22:04:24 GMT 2
Fantastic Fanus
A few years ago I was privileged enough to take a ride in an "old" Escort RS Cosworth on a section of the Finnish Rally stage near Muurame. The driver was Sebastian Lindholm who at that stage was the Finnish national Champion. To make matters worse, it was night and this was late November - So it means Snow.
Once you were strapped in and Basti floored it, your senses could not compute the G's that were being generated on Snow. The total sensory overload of trees and yumps and fast corners was overwhelming - And he was having a fairly casual conversation at speeds of over 180km/h down a forest track!!
I had prior to this thought that I would love to be a WRC driver, but realised that you must be absolutely fearless - Or just not think about what might be arouund the bend (A moose or Taxi or fallen tree)
Regards Vincent
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Post by hotstuff on Sept 12, 2011 22:46:30 GMT 2
Well I have on special gabriel safari shocks full kit front and back for R1635,00 (SUPPLY ONLY) IF interested pm me regards mike
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Post by jaco1978 on Sept 13, 2011 8:10:43 GMT 2
I actualy still have the gabriel lifter shocks (works with air that you pump into it), because I only wanted to lift the back, because the Lada normally looks lower at the back. The benifit of this arangement is that you keep your standard shocks and suspension configuration (safety and reliability), and lift the vehicle when required (like when showing off in town - because a Niva does not have to show off offroad ;D. Even a hydraulic cylinder will do this show-off job!! My cent's worth - have not done it yet. Fanus, would you have the Gabriel lifters in the standard shock mounting or is it an extra mounting configuration? I have noted that Kursk is lower in the back. That might be because of the bigger fuel tank and tyre-rear-mount I have fitted and/or my (perhaps) busted rear shocks.
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Post by marius on Sept 13, 2011 8:13:57 GMT 2
Fantastic Fanus A few years ago I was privileged enough to take a ride in an "old" Escort RS Cosworth on a section of the Finnish Rally stage near Muurame. The driver was Sebastian Lindholm who at that stage was the Finnish national Champion. To make matters worse, it was night and this was late November - So it means Snow. Once you were strapped in and Basti floored it, your senses could not compute the G's that were being generated on Snow. The total sensory overload of trees and yumps and fast corners was overwhelming - And he was having a fairly casual conversation at speeds of over 180km/h down a forest track!! I had prior to this thought that I would love to be a WRC driver, but realised that you must be absolutely fearless - Or just not think about what might be arouund the bend (A moose or Taxi or fallen tree) Regards Vincent Hopefully you remembered to bring a extra pair of pants! I know I would have ;D
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