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Post by marius on May 10, 2011 21:18:09 GMT 2
Oh and I will be running a little something of the old Russian VLI-10's with the new ones > I will fit them with the tubes - even though they are tubeless.
Marius
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on May 10, 2011 21:21:28 GMT 2
Are you sure thats a good idea Marius I'd check with a reputable tyre company first. They are not designed for running with tubes in. Ari
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Post by Charles on May 10, 2011 21:21:49 GMT 2
Marius be very carefull. They can overheat like that.
Charles
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Post by marius on May 10, 2011 21:29:45 GMT 2
The guy at the shop had no problem with that - but thanks I will find out pronto what's up.
The only reason why I want to do that is to prevent the tyre coming off when deflated for soft ground - I thought it was normal practice ?
Marius
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darryn
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Post by darryn on May 10, 2011 23:07:18 GMT 2
Geez, Chairman Maorius... Good work mate. Thank you for the effort. Really.
The tubes were still in the bridgestone duellers I had on before I go the mud tyres, and those lasted for what seems like a long time, and was thinking of doing it like that again, for the same reason as Marius. I'm no expert though, so I'll wait and see. My russian spare tyre needs a new tube though- could I get one there in ol' Ventersdorp Marius?
I've stripped the rust off the rims and will probably spray tomorrow, and be in Ventersdorp either on Friday or Saturday.
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Post by marius on May 11, 2011 6:54:46 GMT 2
Hi Darryn You can give Ventersdorp a try for a tube but I would not hold my breath ;D I must say the tyre guys are real good over here. I will find out for you though and I will also come back to you with regard to fitting a tube. Looking forward to meeting you. Regards Marius PS - off now to have mine fitted
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Des
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Post by Des on May 11, 2011 7:59:45 GMT 2
Hi Marius Congrats on your tyres arriving!!!!!! and a big thank you for all your hard work achieving this. Thank you for going the extra mile, which can often be lonely. I can see you rubbing your hands with excitement while they are fitting the tyre's and then find the first waterhole, just to see if they work. In short, well done!!!!!! Regards Des
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on May 11, 2011 8:43:54 GMT 2
Hi Marius
You will battle to get them to climb off the bead at low pressures, You need to spin them with serious RPM to do that and I dont think the Lada will do that.
Ari
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Post by ronnie on May 11, 2011 9:34:19 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I was under the impression that the original rims were NOT designed for tyres without tubes. On the other hand there is very little chance of the tyres coming off the rim at low pressure in normal driving. To my mind a tube will make little difference anyway. With tubeless you need to watch for the sand building up between the rim and the tyre (so they say) but I never had a problem at any time and that is the type of terrain I did most of my off road driving in.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on May 11, 2011 9:40:49 GMT 2
Hi Marius
As you can`t get that size of tyre here, can you get a tube to suit ?. On the plot, I had so many punctures on the ride on lawn mowers, I eventually had to fit tubes. I could not get the correct sizes and the ones fitted were a bit too big. You have no idea the shape the tubes were when you removed them to fix a puncture. I was not even going fast, 6th gear flat out only about 20 kms / hour ;D.
Ronnie
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on May 11, 2011 9:53:37 GMT 2
Hi Marius I was under the impression that the original rims were NOT designed for tyres without tubes. On the other hand there is very little chance of the tyres coming off the rim at low pressure in normal driving. To my mind a tube will make little difference anyway. With tubeless you need to watch for the sand building up between the rim and the tyre (so they say) but I never had a problem at any time and that is the type of terrain I did most of my off road driving in. Ronnie Hi Ronnie Do you mean the original rims are not air proof?? I had tubeless tyres on a set and they seemed ok, dont know if there were tubes in though. Spikes will know. Ari
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spikes
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Post by spikes on May 11, 2011 12:13:07 GMT 2
Hi all The original Russian Tyre on my spare wheel says "tubed type" on the sidewall. The spare has a tube fitted. Ari was running 205x16 tyres without tubes so the original steel wheels are air tight. I will not be fitting tubes to the Nankangs regards Spikes
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on May 11, 2011 12:25:08 GMT 2
Thanks Spikes
Then I see no problem in running tubeless tyres without the tubes.
Ari
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Post by marius on May 11, 2011 12:28:47 GMT 2
Hi Guys Thanks Des for the kind words News is that I am still waiting for the car to be finished but I had a fairly long conversation with "my tyre guy" and he can not see any reason why I can't fit the tubes. He was going to phone around and see what other tyre expert has to say. Ari I agree with you - it is probably highly unlikely that the tyre will come off in any event AND if you fit a tube you will have to check for sand and stones every time after a low pressure run. I am also quite sure that the standard rim will take tubeless without any issues. I will keep you guys updated. Marius
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on May 11, 2011 12:36:30 GMT 2
Hi Marius
The only time a tyre might climb off the bead is with tyre pressures below 0.8 bar. You will almost never go that low with pressures except in extreme cases (once in a lifetime).
Ari
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Post by marius on May 11, 2011 12:57:27 GMT 2
I forgot to mention Spikes - all the standard Russian tyres are tube types, but you can fit tubeless on the rim.
I have picked up somewhere that fitting tubes in tubeless motorcycle tyres is a BIG NO though. With cars and even trucks you can apparently go either way. The big advantage with tubeless is that you can fix a puncture easily.
Marius
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Post by marius on May 11, 2011 13:19:32 GMT 2
Oh and another thing I've picked up - the Nankangs are ribbed - mostly on the sidewalls but are fairly smooth which should not damage the tube. One thing that will damage the tube is stickers on the inside - but all stickers are on the outside - but make sure there are no stickers on the inside as these are known to cause blowouts.
Ari here is another very good reason to fit a tube >> if you bend a steel rim that is fitted with a tube you don't loose air pressure.
I do not know about legal issues but in some countries you can get into trouble for doing that but fitting a tube on the steel rim is actually recommended but a tubeless should be fine on the steel rim.
Marius
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Post by marius on May 11, 2011 13:28:33 GMT 2
Ready and waiting! Well Ari and Charles I sure hope that I will never have to report a blowout Marius Attachments:
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Post by Charles on May 11, 2011 13:29:52 GMT 2
Marius I was at tyre shop this morning. The owner has been in the game for 40years. He says running with a tube will be fine. It is just vehicles that travel at high speed that has problems. Like bikes.
Charles
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Post by marius on May 11, 2011 13:40:31 GMT 2
;D I was just about to post more or less the same thing when I saw your post. Fitting a tube will have an effect on how the tyre dissipates heat, but unless you travel at high speeds - like Ronnie you should be fine So if you're going to burn some serious rubber DON"T FIT A TUBE IN A TUBELESS TYRE - but if you travel at "Lada Speed" you should be fine. ;D Marius
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Post by darryn on May 11, 2011 14:04:41 GMT 2
Glad that's cleared up! Next question: does this place have tubes in stock Marius? My plan is to drive out to VD, have a cold one with you while the balancing/fitment/alignment is done, and drive back with the mud tyres+rims in the back. If they don't have then I'll have to find some in PTA.
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Post by marius on May 11, 2011 14:12:55 GMT 2
Darryn the guy is going to come back to me on that but I would think it won't be a problem to get the right size tube.
You must remember to make an appointment for the fitment etc - this guy is REAL BUSY - I am still waiting for my car and I was there from 08h00. I like workshops that are busy though it is always a good sign.
Fitment/balancing is R55 per wheel and alignment R180.
Looking forward to having a cold one with you!
Marius
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Post by marius on May 11, 2011 14:34:11 GMT 2
Darryn the tubes are R150 each - he will have to get them from the other tyre guy in town (very good and interesting guy but he doesn't do alignment) - give him a call and order the tubes if you want them.
Marius
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Post by jaco1978 on May 11, 2011 15:50:48 GMT 2
Hi all,
I'm running 215/65 tires tubeless on my stock rims. After having had them on for more than a month (perhaps two) now and done some km's I have not lost any pressure yet. So they seem fine.
After talking to Ventz I am getting his wider-custom-stock rims and I will fit my wider tires on them. Tubeless again. I think punctures is the main issue and tubeless is easier to fix. In fact, I can not think how a puncture in a tubed tire can be fixed in the bush. Unless with the use of something that can be injected into the tire to seal it from the inside.
I'll then be left with 5 stock rims to hopefully get some Nankang's on in the near future.
Marius, congratulations on your import.
Regards,
Jaco
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Post by marius on May 11, 2011 20:17:16 GMT 2
Thanks Jaco I hope you will get your set of Nankangs soon.
Marius
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Post by marius on May 11, 2011 20:40:17 GMT 2
Hi all It was quite along day and I discovered that "my tyre guy" is a perfectionist (a good thing in this instance). He actually wants the car back on Monday for a quick check just to make sure everything is ok. Trust me it will be ok. He is so stoked with the look of the tyres on the Niva he took a few pictures as I left (in the dark). Needles to say not much time to do testing but one thing is very apparent - the steering has significantly improved - the car feels like power steering on steroids! Obviously much to do with his setup on the car. So Spikes if you can get that right your wife will be a very happy girl. Very difficult to find a descent piece of tar around here but the ride feels nice and firm with no apparent wine from the tyres. Actually the tyres are nice and quiet - as advertised. The rocky farm road remains bumpy though ;D I will post pictures of our "sexy" looking Niva some time tomorrow. I will keep you guys posted on how the tyres perform. Regards Marius
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Post by Ventzel on May 11, 2011 20:45:40 GMT 2
Another thing, much more important than easy fixing tubeless wheel is the tubeless are safer then tube type. The tube explodes with puncture at high speed and sometimes that leads to death. Tubeless tyre releases the air very slowly when has been punctured.
Now I'm confused - the tube type rims and tubeless rims have a difference in the shape of the board. The tubeless rim is somehow deeper inside. The original rim definitely was designed tube type but the new tyre is now tubeless. Now who is right, who is wrong ----> SAFETY FIRST!
Ventz
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Post by marius on May 11, 2011 21:00:37 GMT 2
Hi Ventz
I can not agree with you more on the SAFETY FIRST issue and that was a concern - esp after what Ari and Charles had to say.
According to "my tyre guy" the shape of the steel rim is more than adequite to except the tubeless tyre as it is. As long as it can seal properly it is fine and it should be.
If you feel the rim could be unsafe then I would recommend that you fit the tube as I did.
Marius
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Post by marius on May 12, 2011 8:51:17 GMT 2
Hi all I have just noticed something on Ventz's tyres. The tyre spec is given as 175/80R16 91S M+S and not AT. However it is advertised as AT's and the thread is certainly AT. The official 2010 manual just says 4x4 WD. See attached pic. Marius Attachments:
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on May 12, 2011 9:17:20 GMT 2
Hi Marius Lots of tyres say that now in small letters on the sidewall, and then have road tread not even AT. Not sure that it means what we think it does anymore. Ari
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