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Post by marius on Jan 17, 2011 14:57:55 GMT 2
The question has been asked "With all these major mods when does a Niva cease to be a Niva?"
I will attempt to give a simple answer to a complex issue that will surely raise a few eyebrows in the process. Please note this is my personal opinion and not that of LOCSA.
The Lada 4x4 in its most basic form is known as the Niva. To make the car more pleasing for the EU market and elsewhere they added some plastic trim on the wheel arches, added some vinyl stickers on the sides and new alloy type rims and stuck the spare on the back - this version became the Cossack. An even more simplified model with just some vinyl stickers added on the sides and alloy type rims became known as the Hussar.
In South Africa we got a modified version with some plastic trim round the bottom and a nudge bar in the front and alloy rims with 15" tyres known as Sidekick. These are all Lada 4x4's with some very basic modifications but they no longer are Niva's in the purist form. Anything added to these models just become mods. Your Niva might have a radio/cd player added and some spots in the front - then it becomes a Niva Mod. A Sidekick with 215 size tyres becomes a Sidekick Mod - or if you wish a modified Sidekick and so on.
The picture changes somewhat when you start tinkering with the fundamentals of the car. This is also an issue I have with rally/racing/extreme off-road cars. They become so highly modified from the standard that the car becomes something else. Still you have to admire the shear skill of these drivers - absolutely fantastic!
True the Touareg did win the Dakar 2011 but I wonder how well a standard vehicle would have fared. The same goes for a Lada Niva fitted with a Porsche engine with what might even be an Audi drive train - to me it's a Porsche with a Niva shell and an Audi drive train.
If the Lada takes the victory - they should actually give the trophy to Porsche or even Audi.
Just as a pure sample - the pic Charles posted of the heavily lifted Lada. Nothing wrong with doing that but it is very far from being a Lada - it just so happens to have a Lada shell fitted on what might be modified Toyota and whatever parts.
Maybe I am a little harsh here - so let's hear your views on the matter.
Regards Marius
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Post by Charles on Jan 17, 2011 16:13:52 GMT 2
Marius I have to agree with you. I also understand that some want to keep their Nivas stock with a few mods for comfort. Then ther are madman like myself and i THINK I can count Ari in aswell. We want our cars to look like a Niva. We love the Lada brand and all that it stands for, but we want little trail monsters. Cars that can truely transverse any terrain and show the big boys that we truely drive the best 4x4s in the world. I feel that even if it is lifted with cut arches and maybe even a heart transplant, the Niva passion and soul is still there. It is still the car we all fell in love with.
I agree that blue Niva I love so much isn't a Niva in the true sense of the word, but it still looks like a Niva and is keeping the Lada name high. So even with all that moda to me it is still a Niva.
If it looks like a niva it is a Niva. Some a bit less than others, but they all are still Nivas.
Charles
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Post by marius on Jan 17, 2011 17:45:32 GMT 2
Great to see that you feel this passionate about the Niva - I like that Just one thing that I totally disagree with - "show the big boys that we truly drive the best 4x4s in the world" No need to do that the Niva is a legend already ;D PS - we are the big boys, the other guys just drive bigger cars to make them feel bigger - you know where ;D
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darryn
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Post by darryn on Jan 17, 2011 18:43:58 GMT 2
Ha ha ha... It's not the size of the dog in the fight...
I don't really mind if someone mods a Niva, but when you look at the attributes that make the car stand out (considering where the Lada comes from and the ideology that caused its inception etc), it has to be its simple design, motor and transmission/drive-train. I think when you start making big changes with any of those, then it stops being a Niva.
On the other side of the fence:
Right hand drive Nivas are actually flippen rare when you take into account how many cars exist in this world, and especially that thousands of Nivas are still being made every month. Because of their massive numbers in Europe and Asia, the novelty stopped quite fast. And because of its simple design, it is really easy to modify. And when you look at the overseas forums, boy, do they go to town on their Nivas. It seems that over there, the spirit and current thinking around the Niva IS modification- there's a familiarity with the brand there that is not experienced anywhere else in the world. It seems they love the Niva like a brother, but I love my Niva like my sister. I might be completely wrong, but that's the impression I get.
So, right-hand Nivas are scarce and therefore special. I like to treat mine that way, and I only mod if it's very necessary. As I go along, I'd actually like to make my Niva quite close to concourse (which is a bit old and fartsy) but I didn't buy my Niva primarily for going off-road; it makes a statement about me. The Niva was part of an ideology- which, admittedly, was far from perfect in practice- of modesty, independence, equality and in our context, the constitution to not care too much about what people think. I'll stop on the threshold of talking politics, but I'd rather drive a well looked after Niva than turn up in a brand new silver Audi. But that's just Karl Marx speaking.
Take care, Comradskis.
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Post by ronnie on Jan 17, 2011 18:49:43 GMT 2
Hi Marius You have more or less saved me saying much on this subject as you have answered for me. . Most of these major mods increase the weight of the Niva substantially which can be a drawback when off road. I also hope you all remember to advise your Insurance company of major changes! Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jan 17, 2011 18:58:37 GMT 2
Hi Darryn I have used the Niva and the Defender extensively in the bush in the surrounding countries and the only mod BOTH vehicles needed was heavier springs to carry the additional load. Apart from that they were standard and never left us stranded when far from civilization . If I were not carrying so much weight they would have been fine in standard form Ronnie
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Post by Charles on Jan 17, 2011 19:19:05 GMT 2
Guys i wont take my niva to the extremes if its still my only niva. I want another one in perfect condition then make this one a toy. For time being mine is getting a lift and nice interior. She is my pride and joy! Even if she is just standing.
Charles
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darryn
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Post by darryn on Jan 17, 2011 19:22:28 GMT 2
You love your Niva charles, and that's awesome.
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Post by spikes on Jan 17, 2011 19:22:51 GMT 2
To me any vehicle that has been fitted with accessories that was not part of the std factory or import package, becomes a Modified and no longer the original. In this case a Lada NIVA. By this definition my Niva is no longer std as it has an after market burglar alarm and radio fitted. But I'm not loosing any sleep over that. The basic 4X4 recipe, ease of maintenance and very competitive price )(as 4x4s go) remained. Regards Spikes
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Post by Charles on Jan 17, 2011 19:44:15 GMT 2
I have wanted a Niva for 12 years. Thanks to your opinions my lada will retain her drivetrain and engine. Will keep her a Niva!
Charles
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Post by danie on Jan 17, 2011 20:37:31 GMT 2
To my mind a Lada with any mod - doesn't matter whether it's an orange on the radio antenna, aircon, towbar, cd player, radio, aftermarket seats, bigger wheels, aftermarket radiator cap, tennis ball on the towbar, etc., etc, , becomes a "modified Lada", and immediately cease to be a "standard Lada" once any "non standard" items have been fitted.
Therefore I believe almost all our members are already owning "modified" Ladas at the moment !
It's all in the mind I think .
Danie
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Post by marius on Jan 17, 2011 20:53:25 GMT 2
Some interesting thoughts being shared here.
Don't get me wrong - I am not against any type of mod even in it's extreme form. Some of these are actually works of art and the very basic nature of the Niva lends it well toward such mods.
I am perhaps a little biased here but the Niva - as is - is awesome in most off-road conditions. In most cases - any bells and whistles added just deteriorates it's excelent 4x4 capabilities.
There is however an alarming tendency that the old school purists are a bunch of hard line Commies ;D
Welcome Comrades!
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Post by danie on Jan 17, 2011 22:09:41 GMT 2
Hi Marius / Ronnie Very interesting thread. Ronnie, to my knowledge your Lada is one the most - and best modified Ladas in South Africa - no kidding ! I think most of us would love to own that car and I believe it would be absolutely stupid to reckon that that Lada already ceased to be a Niva ! And trust me - despite all the mods to that Lada, I will never tell Ronnie that his Lada already ceased to be a Lada ! Cheers Comrades. P.S. Ronnie, I noticed that you have raised a question in this regard elsewhere - hopefully you did not start feeling guilty about all the mods to your Lada !!
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bobbyd
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Post by bobbyd on Jan 17, 2011 22:44:12 GMT 2
For some strange reason when I have finished driveing my Niva I have a funny smile on my face and I would hate to have to miss out on that
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Post by marius on Jan 18, 2011 8:22:34 GMT 2
Yeh Bobby Danie I agree - Ronnie's is the best looking modified Niva out there. The only thing that keeps me from arranging a highjack is the fact that it was a rebuild from Jan ;D Seriously though - Ronnie's Niva is a blueprint for what can be done to improve a Niva Regards Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jan 18, 2011 10:36:09 GMT 2
Hi Danie No regrets as I try to keep the mods small and useful. I think the biggest mod I have done (mechanical) is the carb. You will notice I have kept it neat even replacing all the petrol hoses so they cannot rub against anything when moving. There is 2 brackets under the air box which are not visible in the photo. No matter how well most of these major mods are done they all look a mess as no attention to the electrical or pipe work has been made. This in turn leads to unreliability. There are exceptions to this but they are few and far apart. Marius, as you say some interesting points have been made which all serves to keep the Forum interesting and alive Comrade Ronnie Attachments:
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Post by marius on Jan 18, 2011 15:11:29 GMT 2
Neat and tidy as ever
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Post by danie on Jan 18, 2011 19:00:20 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
I was a bit worried that you might stop doing mods to your Lada - if you should stop Ari and myself will find ourself isolated at the Forum. ;D
Regards
Danie
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Post by ronnie on Jan 18, 2011 20:06:23 GMT 2
Hi Danie
Noticed today the rubber seal on the radiator cap is torn and leaking, so I will look at a mod so I can use a standard length cap. I will take a photo tomorrow to show you how I record the different size belts etc so anyone can see what is used on my Niva which differs from standard.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Jan 18, 2011 21:29:08 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
As far as I can remember you have bought an original radiator cap quite recently ?
Danie
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Post by ronnie on Jan 19, 2011 9:09:13 GMT 2
Hi Danie
It is a long time ago I ordered a radiator cap from the "agent" in Pretoria, but needless to say he never bothered to let me know when he had stock available. I sat with 2 screwdrivers for a long time getting the rubber seal back on to the brass disc instead. That rubber is now split. I will look at a pressure bottle with 70kpa cap and then put a plain cap on the radiator.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jan 19, 2011 9:36:18 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie
It might be cheaper to get a cap from Ventz or Chris?
Always a bit of oil sweating from the oil cap - but I guess it is quite common?
I know one of our new members is a great extreme enthusiast - and I have been to some of the events near Paarl. Great fun but I realy don't like the way they hammer those cars.
I have seen beautifull rebuild Jeeps being crushed - a rebuild Range Rover rolling down a bank. Landrovers and Jeeps limping away with broken shafts and suspensions.
The only thing that makes sense is a cage on wheels.
Regards Marius
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Post by ronnie on Apr 20, 2011 18:17:49 GMT 2
Hi All It sometimes takes me a long time to answer some things and this is one I have been thinking about for some time. If we want to talk MODIFIED it can only apply to original parts which we have changed like motors and gearboxes etc. If we talk about radios, this is not a modification it is simply an optional extra. The Niva is still mechanically exactly as it was designed to perform its job. Most of the items on the attached list can be considered to be OPTIONAL EXTRAS. Even the sidekick is not a modified version it would be the same as a standard model and a de luxe one. If you do not agree with this then we have plenty of modified cars running around that are not base models with extras but modified cars. Ronnie Attachments:
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Post by marius on Apr 20, 2011 18:21:30 GMT 2
Good answer Ronnie ;D
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Post by jaco1978 on Apr 20, 2011 21:38:32 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie,
If I "modify" my engine in such a great way that it all of a sudden also can be called a Fiat 1.6 Twin Cam, is it a "modification" or a replacement (as I do not see it as an "optional extra") and therefore not a Niva. Should we then talk about a completely "modified" or semi-"modified" Niva or a semi-modified-niva-with-optional-extras Niva?
Perhaps I could strictly say: I have a Lada Custom or Sidekick or Safari or Cossack or ...
Maybe, strictly speaking, a Lada Niva means it to be a stock Lada Niva. That would say, by the law of identity: A Lada Niva is a Lada Niva. Anything more or anything less is not a Lada Niva.
Sorry mate, just playing Devil's Advocate a bit. ;D
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Post by ronnie on Apr 20, 2011 21:52:35 GMT 2
Hi Jaco After reading your post it will probably take me a year to understand it and answer you ;D . One thing for sure if you add a radio the Niva is still stock standard as the factory left a hole to put it in ;D Ronnie
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Post by jaco1978 on Apr 20, 2011 23:51:11 GMT 2
;D ;D ;D
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excreamer
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Post by excreamer on Apr 20, 2011 23:59:19 GMT 2
Im guessing that mine is a Fiva then!!!!!!!!!
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Post by marius on Apr 21, 2011 8:32:06 GMT 2
I think you have a TRIVA mate! ;D ;D ;D
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Apr 21, 2011 20:56:06 GMT 2
Well, what happens when your original Niva (mine) has rust holes in it? Does repairing them and PROPERLY preventing the corrosion constitute a modification?
Regards Vincent
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