spikes
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Post by spikes on Jul 8, 2012 8:15:37 GMT 2
Hi Dimitris
Yes I agree. But one would then see or hear the action in the overflow, I think?
Spikes
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Post by danie on Jul 8, 2012 8:29:19 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
I have never measured the differences in temp on any given engine, so I think my guess is as good (or bad) as anyone else's.
The hot water which comes from a Lada engine, enters the radiator at the opposite end of the radiator Cap - so in theory, the temp. reading near the radiator cap should be cooler than the reading at the opposite (top) end of the radiator.
So I think the answer to question "2" is yes, that's normal - but you should get an even lower temperature reading at the outlet (bottom) end of the radiator, because that is from where the cooled water gets sucked into the engine.
But I think the only way to get proper temp readings at the different Radiator spots, is to use an Infrared Thermometer. The Radiator Cap should also be closed when these readings are taken . (Temp. reading will rise when the Cap gets removed).
To my mind different temperature readings (at different spots) at the radiator, taken with an Infrared Thermometer, would probably the easiest way to determine whether the cooling fluid at your Lada is circulating correctly.
Maybe the guys at Silverton Radiators will be able to take measurements with an Infrared Thermometer? I think the Guys at Silverton should be perfectly capable of getting a correct diagnoses, just by having a good look at the different readings at the Radiator itself.
Danie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 8, 2012 8:44:44 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
It is a long time since I checked the difference in temp between the block and the radiator, but there was a considerable difference. The radiator is a cross-flow so the filler side temperature should be lower, I know mine was. I have also seen the level rise slightly when the cap was opened but I doubt if an air bubble could cause this unless there was still a small amount of pressure in the system. Air is always at atmospheric pressure and can only increase if pressure is present. If the coolant is not circulating the engine will boil. What temp is your additional gauge showing during normal driving ?. One other thing, if your additional gauge does not have it`s probe in the exact same place as the original probe there is little chance of the 2 gauges giving a similar reading.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 8, 2012 9:12:44 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
You can safely take the water temp with the radiator cap removed as when the cap is fitted all it does is allow the pressure to rise and this increases the temp at which water boils. This is why you should not remove the radiator cap when the engine is very warm, as the pressure is then released and if the water temp is close to boiling point you will not only have very hot water overflowing it will immediately boil at atmospheric pressure.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 8, 2012 9:43:21 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
One thing I should have mentioned, if you allow the engine to heat up with the radiator cap off you will have some water overflowing from the filler due to expansion. You must allow the car to cool fully and top up the level before fitting the radiator cap and using the Niva.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Jul 8, 2012 9:47:16 GMT 2
Good morning Spikes, I agree with you except for the "genuine parts". (water pump, thermostat) If you read the Russian forums, they talking and searching about after market parts. ;D Hi Dimitris Now that's very interesting . If I do understand you correctly, the Russians prefer aftermarket parts instead of OEM parts ? What are they complaining about ?? Overheating problems ? Could you please supply a Link to a your source of information ? Many thanks. Danie
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dimitris
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Post by dimitris on Jul 8, 2012 10:44:18 GMT 2
Hi Dimitris Yes I agree. But one would then see or hear the action in the overflow, I think? Spikes Hi Spikes I agree.......my post was unnecessary and I deleted. ;D ;D
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dimitris
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Post by dimitris on Jul 8, 2012 11:09:17 GMT 2
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Post by danie on Jul 8, 2012 17:43:19 GMT 2
Thanks Dimitris
We already know that at least one of our local Suppliers (Ventz) do sell parts which comes from other parts of Europe - due to better quality.
Pavel also sell "the best parts available", which includes parts which come from western Europe. The Balljoints which I have bought from him , came from Germany.
I think the fact that the Russians themselves are also looking for "better quality" is final proof that the "OEM parts are best" theory is nothing but a fantasy.
To my mind this only points down to one thing - do whatever you need to do, to keep the Lada going. That includes buying aftermarket parts which are available in South Africa as well.
Regards
Danie
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on Jul 8, 2012 21:53:50 GMT 2
Thanks for all the response guys and the tips! When I’ve digested it all I’m sure I’ll be back with more queries. The reason for all the questions is that I took Nikita for a run yesterday to try out her new temp gauge and on the flat open road it registered around 84deg ( too low I know but I don’t have a thermostat at the moment as I’ve mentioned previously ) but started running hot when I tried driving slowly. Switching on my two radiator fans seemed to have no effect either so I think I have a problem. I’ll first try bleeding the system again as suggested by Spikes and then I’ll also check out the accuracy of the new gauge and try to get the other readings as suggested by Danie. Unfortunately, I can’t get the lazer test done locally so I’ll have to make a plan. Ronnie – I only have the one temp gauge fitted which replaced the one on the instrument panel which didn’t work properly. The probe reads from exactly the same place. If the coolant wasn’t circulating properly, due to an airlock, for instance, would the overheating of the engine you refer to be obvious immediately? Thanks again guys – I’ll keep you posted! NIKKI
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Post by ronnie on Jul 8, 2012 22:19:43 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
The first thing you must do before you waste your time is make sure you have a working thermostat and radiator cap. Anything you do without these 2 items will be a waste of time. I doubt if you will have an air lock, once the system is full of water, let the engine run with the cap off and any air SHOULD circulate with the water and exit via the cap. The Niva thermostat blocks the bypass and circulates all the water through the radiator when the control temperature is reached. Without the thermostat the water will circulate through the path of least resistance, and wither this is through the radiator or not I do not know. Please fit a thermostat first so you are not misled as to what is happening.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Jul 9, 2012 6:17:35 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
I did not realize that the Lada was running without a Thermostat.
Ronnie is spot on - without a Thermostat, any further test will simply be a waste of time.
Running without a Thermostat means that the cooling fluid most probably circulates too fast at some stages through the cooling system, and you will get all sorts of strange temperature readings.
Danie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jul 9, 2012 7:04:06 GMT 2
Hi Nikki I have a Thremostat if you require. Can drop off in Nelspruit. You should have my telephone number on previous e-mails. Are the fans running in the right direction? If wired incorrectly they will still run but HAVE no effect on cooling Ronnie will surely advise here. Spikes
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Post by ronnie on Jul 9, 2012 14:54:45 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
Some fans are made to blow (preferred) and some are made to suck air through the radiator. A small amount have reversible blades and direction and can do both. The ones that do not have reversible blades will run in the opposite direction if you reverse the 2 power leads. However they will then move very little air. I have said the best are the ones that blow (fitted in front of the radiator) my reason being you can still fit the mechanical fan if needed. Danie has also confirmed you need to fit the thermostat before you waste any money or time. Fit it make sure you have no air in the system and let us know the results.
Ronnie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jul 9, 2012 15:02:21 GMT 2
Thanks Ronnie
The TBI NIVA is actually fitted with a small cowl on the left front of the radiator about in line with the mechanical fan,ideal for the fitting of an electrical fan.
Spikes
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Post by ronnie on Jul 9, 2012 15:10:11 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
I remember from the UK forum the "black box" is already programed to switch the fan on at the correct temp. The instructions are on the UK forum.
Ronnie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jul 9, 2012 15:13:45 GMT 2
Thanks Ronnie!
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Post by ronnie on Jul 9, 2012 15:22:23 GMT 2
Hi All I don`t know if 4 life is available in SA but I have just bought it for the MG. It is used neat no water, boiling point 180 deg freezing -45 deg life span 10 years. It is red in colour and will change to yellow if there are head gasket problems. It can be reused and will revert to red when the head gasket has been replaced. It is not cheap at 15.95 GBP. It is recommended by the MG club. Ronnie Attachments:
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Jul 9, 2012 16:08:15 GMT 2
Is that 15.95 GBP per 500ml or per litre??
Ari
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Post by ronnie on Jul 9, 2012 16:32:43 GMT 2
Hi Ari
The price is for a 5 litre container as per the pic
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Jul 9, 2012 17:26:25 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
If I remember correctly, you have had a leak at the water bottle.
If the leak has not been sorted yet, I think there is a possibility that air get sucked into the cooling system when the engine cools down.
Danie
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Ihar
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Lada Niva Driver
Honour thy forefathers and drink beer, they did
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Post by Ihar on Jul 9, 2012 17:54:42 GMT 2
Hi
Then I consider it cheap, wanna start an export business Ronnie?
Tjeers
Steve
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Post by Charles on Jul 9, 2012 18:25:02 GMT 2
I have one of those TBI cowls...
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Post by ronnie on Jul 9, 2012 20:13:05 GMT 2
Hi Steve I will tell you what I think of the product when I have filled the system with it.The water was very brown when I bought the car. I have already flushed it 4 times and will flush again before filling with the 4 life.
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on Jul 9, 2012 20:57:09 GMT 2
Ronnie I wish we got that here.
Charles
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Jul 9, 2012 21:15:40 GMT 2
Hi Then I consider it cheap, wanna start an export business Ronnie? Tjeers Steve Agree with Steve.
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Post by Charles on Jul 9, 2012 21:30:01 GMT 2
Me three.
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Post by ronnie on Jul 9, 2012 22:13:55 GMT 2
Hi Charles
I did a search but it does not appear to be available in SA. Will report back when I start using it.
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on Jul 9, 2012 22:21:39 GMT 2
Thanks Ronnie.
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on Jul 9, 2012 22:52:40 GMT 2
Thanks for your further comments guys. Spikes – thank you for your kind offer but I do have a new thermostat which I just need to test to make sure it works. If it doesn’t I’ll get back to you. Ronnie - with regard to the fans they are running in the right direction and are the blower types that fit on the outside of the radiator. They usually work well so I was surprised that they didn’t seem to have much effect at the weekend. Danie – I had small leaks either end of the red pipe at one stage but managed to fix the one that goes into the radiator. Unfortunately, I haven’t been successful with the end going into the bottle but I think it’s to do with the bottle itself and I may have to put the old one back. I’ve decided to visit the local radiator guy during the week and get him to change the coolant, fit the thermostat and check out my water pump. He can also check my fans as well as he fitted the second one for me. He’s very familiar with my ongoing overheating problems during the past 6 years and is always very nice to me because I’m a very good customer! ;D ;D I'll keep you posted and thanks again. NIKKI
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