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Post by danie on Jul 4, 2012 17:41:41 GMT 2
Thanks Charles Ronnie. I wil test my cowling and see if it works. Then i also need to test my radiator as the engine and pipes are vrot with rust. When i drained the coolant there was 2mm + of rust at the bottom of the bucket. Also the pipes are lined with that same stuff. How can i clean it? Ruan Hi Ruan I find it absolutely astounding how many Lada owners will find crazy solutions to non existent problems. As for the low range stuff, the past weekend 2 nivas did some serious off roading and no overheating issues cropped up. Fix the REAL problem. Not the imaginary one. Regards Vincent Hi Vincent Just a stupid remark - but to my mind this is very important: Your Lada is not "standard" by any means (compared to "standard" Ladas in South Africa) - because an electric fan (if I remember correctly, two electric fans) has / have been installed to your Lada. So I don't think it is possible to compare your Lada to any other Lada, who only has a standard cooling fan with (or without) a cowl. Also, we do find ourselves in mid winter at the moment - your experience during the past weekend might be very different during mid summer. Believe me, I have no intention of getting involved in an argument here - but to be honest - I do believe that the solution to so called "overheating issues" at Lada engines are not as simple as discussed here. Regards Danie
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Roons
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Post by Roons on Jul 4, 2012 19:27:23 GMT 2
I am shure if i drive in summer on a hot day its going to overheat. But now it looks like it stays around 90 deg. Had a small water leak. Fixed that and bleeded it properly. I dont trust my cooling cant keep my eye off the gauge.
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Post by ronnie on Jul 4, 2012 20:11:19 GMT 2
Hi Danie
Vincent`s Niva did not overheat in the heat of summer and neither did Ari`s in very high ambient temperatures. A standard Niva with the cowl fitted, should be able to cope with the summer temperatures. I used Ari`s as my everyday transport and running between our various sites before the air con was fitted and there was no overheating. These are facts and are not by any means my imagination. If the Niva cooling system is looked after and all the components are as new there should be no overheating. You have already stated yours also did not overheat when you were using it. I also used to watch the temp in Vincent`s Niva like a hawk as I was not always happy, but in the end I was worrying about nothing. It also appears that many of the Niva`s in SA do not now have the cowl fitted, no doubt due to laziness to refit them. The cooling will not work correctly if the cowl is not fitted.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 4, 2012 20:16:17 GMT 2
Hi Ruan
If you are showing about 90 deg it is just about right.
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on Jul 4, 2012 20:25:49 GMT 2
Well what I saw in mine is that the standard gauge is over reading about 15 to 20 deg.
Charles
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Post by ronnie on Jul 4, 2012 21:39:33 GMT 2
Hi Charles
I also found the standard gauge was over reading by at least 12 deg. At one stage I did not believe my meter and was convinced the Niva gauge was correct.
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on Jul 4, 2012 21:44:22 GMT 2
My Niva runs over 95 deg on the std gauge and my aftermarket one showing 84 deg.
Charles
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dimitris
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Post by dimitris on Jul 4, 2012 21:52:41 GMT 2
I agree with Ronnie. My experience on the 1600 niva (over 25 years) is that if the cooling system is in good condition there is no overheating. If you have a clean radiator, a fan with cowl fitted, a good water pump and a good thermostat you should have no problem. Here during the summer the temperature reaches 40 to 42 degrees. Never had an overheating problem. I have fitted apart from the mechanical fan and an electric one.... just as an accessory ..... very rarely works for a few seconds. I have never seen temperatures above 92 to 93 degrees and only during a hard off-road driving. Water pump impeller diam......66- 73 mm ....6 -7 flaps?? it's a big difference. PS. you are very lucky there, because your cars are not 1700 EFI. These have really a big over heating problem. Another advantage of 1600 .... The temperature gauge is absolutely right. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Charles on Jul 4, 2012 22:12:24 GMT 2
As far I know we only have the ones with the small impeller.
Charles
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Jul 4, 2012 23:07:36 GMT 2
Hi Ruan I find it absolutely astounding how many Lada owners will find crazy solutions to non existent problems. As for the low range stuff, the past weekend 2 nivas did some serious off roading and no overheating issues cropped up. Fix the REAL problem. Not the imaginary one. Regards Vincent Hi Vincent Just a stupid remark - but to my mind this is very important: Your Lada is not "standard" by any means (compared to "standard" Ladas in South Africa) - because an electric fan (if I remember correctly, two electric fans) has / have been installed to your Lada. So I don't think it is possible to compare your Lada to any other Lada, who only has a standard cooling fan with (or without) a cowl. Also, we do find ourselves in mid winter at the moment - your experience during the past weekend might be very different during mid summer. Believe me, I have no intention of getting involved in an argument here - but to be honest - I do believe that the solution to so called "overheating issues" at Lada engines are not as simple as discussed here. Regards Danie Danie As the owner of two running Nivas and 1 non runner I am in the best position to compare a modified vs standard Nivas. Rusti is completely standard including the cowl. The cooling system on Ronnies Lada is standard with the addition of the electric fans that the Aircon required. The heat test on Ronnies old Niva was also done with the electric fans disconnected as I wanted to see what effect they had on the overall cooling - Total effect - Nil IN DURBAN SUMMER Traffic while stuck in traffic. My previous causes of cooling system problems were cylinder head, radiator cap, dirty coolant and radiator and the Thermostat. Since then - Zip/Niks/NADA on BOTH the running Lada's. Solve the problem - Not make a modification.
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Post by danie on Jul 5, 2012 6:17:30 GMT 2
[/quote]
Danie
The heat test on Ronnies old Niva was also done with the electric fans disconnected as I wanted to see what effect they had on the overall cooling - Total effect - Nil IN DURBAN SUMMER Traffic while stuck in traffic.
[/quote]
Hi Vincent
Should you ever visit Durban during mid summer, please do me a huge favor, and let me know .
Would you mind if I can be present during a "stuck in traffic" test like that (fans disconnected) with your Lada ?
I think that's the only way to convince me for once and all.
Many thanks.
Danie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jul 5, 2012 8:46:21 GMT 2
Hi My own views on the NIVA cooling system: It is well designed to cope with wide range of temperatures Do make sure that: The Radiator is clean on the outside(both sides) no grass leaves or mud between the fins) Engine water galleries flushed. There are additives on the market to flush. I have only used clean water on a stationary engine. Rubber pipes in good condition. Replace if older than 10 years. Layers may separate when hot. Test thermostat( I am talking of the std Lada thermostat) If your system does not have the genuine thermostat, fit one. Water pump. With the fan belt removed turn it slowly by hand to feel if there are rough spots or diagonal movement on the shaft Ensure that the cowling is fitted Ensure that the fan belt is tensioned properly Anti-freeze to correct % non corrosive to aluminium Bleed the system to rid it of air, as described elsewhere on the forum Re bleed it again(I am serious, take it out for drive and re bleed) Radiator cap sealing properly and seal in good condition Overflow tank fitted and pipes not leaking MEASURE the actual water temperature when gauge sit at 90 C. The gauge may be suspect. At least two recorded cases are on forum of over reading gauges
Now if you are experiencing temperatures above 97 C consider additional cooling measures.
Enjoy the NIVA
Spikes
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dimitris
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Post by dimitris on Jul 5, 2012 9:22:06 GMT 2
Good morning
Spikes, I agree with you except for the "genuine parts". (water pump, thermostat) If you read the Russian forums, they talking and searching about after market parts. ;D
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Post by ronnie on Jul 5, 2012 9:33:21 GMT 2
Hi Danie
It is obvious you do not believe what is being said. If that is the case we are wasting our time. You could of course use your own Niva as a test bed but I think I am correct in saying it has not turned a wheel for years. If this is the case you cannot make statements which contradict what people with running Niva`s are stating.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 5, 2012 9:47:12 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
Your list is fine by me and is comprehensive. I don`t think Dimitris is aware your comment on GENUINE is referring to non standard as in thermostat in top hose. I am sure your Niva is used to running at slow speeds in High ambient temperature, so if any one was to have problems it would be you. Any one thinking about fitting an air con must be aware it adds a large load to the cooling system and it is normal practice to add an electric fan. The strange thing is the Defender I had did not have an electric fan fitted with the air con and there was no problems here either.
Ronnie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jul 5, 2012 9:53:12 GMT 2
Good morning Spikes, I agree with you except for the "genuine parts". (water pump, thermostat) If you read the Russian forums, they talking and searching about after market parts. ;D Hi Dimitris and Ronnie ;D ;D I was more or less referring to "No thermostat" or Ronnies" "favourite converter" model from Gauteng. Regards Spikes
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dimitris
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Post by dimitris on Jul 5, 2012 10:11:39 GMT 2
Spikes sorry, but sometimes I don't understand exactly what you mean......my English is bad.
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Post by Charles on Jul 5, 2012 10:17:25 GMT 2
Your english is fine. My greek is worse than your english.
Charles
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Jul 5, 2012 10:43:50 GMT 2
[/quote]
Hi Vincent
Should you ever visit Durban during mid summer, please do me a huge favor, and let me know .
Would you mind if I can be present during a "stuck in traffic" test like that (fans disconnected) with your Lada ?
I think that's the only way to convince me for once and all.
Many thanks.
Danie
[/quote]
With Pleasure Danie
PM me your business address and We can go for a drive in your lunch hour in Summer. I am often in Pine Town with my various business calls and travel into Durbs every day during the school time.
Regards Vincent
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Roons
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Post by Roons on Jul 5, 2012 11:00:39 GMT 2
Humidity helps alot to cool a radiator so durbs may not be the best place to test the ladas. U need hot and dry (desert) conditions in the sand up hill towing a house to test it properly
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jul 5, 2012 11:58:03 GMT 2
Good morning Spikes, I agree with you except for the "genuine parts". (water pump, thermostat) If you read the Russian forums, they talking and searching about after market parts. ;D Hi Dimitris and Ronnie ;D ;D I was more or less referring to "No thermostat" or Ronnies" "favourite converter" model from Gauteng. Regards Spikes Sorry Dimitris There is a local Lada specialist(non forum member) who claims he has a South African"thermostat". It is simply a flow-restrictor that does not control temp in any way. Ronnie/s wife bought their NIVA from him. The dealer is not Ronnie's favourite person. So I was basically joking with Ronnie Regards Spikes
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Post by ronnie on Jul 5, 2012 12:47:11 GMT 2
Hi Dimitris
Your English is fine my Greek is non existent
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 5, 2012 12:49:17 GMT 2
Hi Spikes
I knew what you were referring to with non genuine, but prefer not to mention Lada Centurion.
Ronnie
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Post by ronnie on Jul 5, 2012 12:55:30 GMT 2
Hi Ruan
With Ari`s Niva it was used extensively in Botswana, once with no air con and all the rest of the trips with one. Much of the running in the Game Reserves was in low ratio for hour after hour with no overheating issues. The Niva was also heavily loaded to the extent I had to fit heavier springs.
Ronnie
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Post by Charles on Jul 5, 2012 18:48:04 GMT 2
Ronnie those front springs gave my Niva a 2cm lift infront.
Charles
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on Jul 7, 2012 21:43:56 GMT 2
Hi Guys I had the external temp gauge fitted yesterday but I'm still having problems and have a few queries . 1. When I was bleeding the system today I checked the temp reading on the new gauge against the temperature in the radiator by sticking a digital thermometer into the radiator and I’m still getting a difference of about 20deg. Approximately what should the difference in temperature be between the block and the radiator? 2. After a run, when the engine has warmed up, is it normal for the top of the radiator closest to the cap to be cooler than the rest of it? 3. When I removed the radiator cap this morning to check the coolant level I noticed that the level seemed to rise a bit – does this indicate air in the system or is this normal? As always any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks a stack. NIKKI
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Nikki Lada
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Post by Nikki Lada on Jul 8, 2012 7:07:04 GMT 2
Something I forgot to ask is how do I know if my coolant is circulating properly? Thanks NIKKI
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jul 8, 2012 7:24:38 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
other than feeling for heat on the left rubber hose after awhile with the NIVA stationary but engine running, I cant think of an easy way to check, but one of the Fundi's will have an answer, I am sure.
Spikes
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Post by danie on Jul 8, 2012 7:36:39 GMT 2
Hi Vincent Should you ever visit Durban during mid summer, please do me a huge favor, and let me know . Would you mind if I can be present during a "stuck in traffic" test like that (fans disconnected) with your Lada ? I think that's the only way to convince me for once and all. Many thanks. Danie [/quote] With Pleasure Danie PM me your business address and We can go for a drive in your lunch hour in Summer. I am often in Pine Town with my various business calls and travel into Durbs every day during the school time. Regards Vincent [/quote] Hi Vincent Many thanks I am not restricted to lunch hours, so any time will actually suit me. I would actually like to see this test results during February, when we usually experience our hottest temperatures of the year - so let's rather wait untill then. I will remind you during January / February, regarding an appointment. Regards Danie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jul 8, 2012 7:38:02 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
If the radiator water is 20 degrees cooler than the block AND the block is <95 Celsius, dance with joy. At least that is what I would do. Yes the hose feeding "colder" water from the Rad to the engine should be the coolest with a correctly functioning cooling system.
If the engine was cold when you opened the rad cap AND water level rose, I think that indicates "pressure" present. That would be "pressure" caused by an air bubble. You may have to "burp" the baby:) again
My views for what they are worth only.
Spikes
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