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Post by ronnie on Jun 15, 2011 11:35:59 GMT 2
Hi Koos
Usually when the hole is on the bottom it is a drain hole to let the water out when the seal leaks.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jun 15, 2011 12:33:28 GMT 2
Hi Koos
I have a feeling that your water pump is actually not an original - can you post a couple of pics?
Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jun 15, 2011 17:39:53 GMT 2
Hi Marius
It could still be an original as most manufacturers use different suppliers all the time on the assembly line. The ones which cannot take the cowl and the fan centre is different diameter will be aftermarket ones.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jun 15, 2011 18:24:29 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie I have seen many imitations from China and even the improved one from Lada World - they more or less look exactly like the original, but they all lack the all important (for me ;D) retainer screw. The new improved one from Russia with the upgraded seal and bearings still have the retaining screw. Marius
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Post by marius on Jun 19, 2011 8:36:26 GMT 2
Hi all
I have not heard anything from Autozone with regard to further imports on these water pumps.
I will only pursue this matter further once we've established whether the fan will fit properly or not on the shaft of the pump - so let me know as soon as possible.
Marius
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Post by danie on Jun 19, 2011 12:31:39 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I haven't collected the Salari waterpump yet - the guy at Autozone undertook to phone me once the pump has arrived, and he hasn't phoned me yet.
If I do read Fansingh's post correctly, the waterpump should be a Autozone already - so I will find out during this week and have a proper look at it.
According to Koos the Saleri bump works well , although he did not want to change the hole at the fan - so he has made a spacer to fit the fan. Apparently the cowl also do not fit - but as far as I know many Ladas out there are running without cowls anyway.
I still believe Locsa should make a serious attempt to ensure more of these pumps at Autozone in future. To my mind all owners should make up their own minds whether they want to buy Saleri waterpumps, whether they want to make spacers, make the fan holes bigger, or run the engine without a cowl. As mentioned earlier, an electric fan can easily compensate for the loss of a fan.
To my mind this issue is all about availability of a cheaper waterppump, which carries a two year guarrantee.
More of these pumps on Atozone's shelves will also force the local Suppliers to lower their waterpump prices - therefore I am convinced that it is in the best interest of all owners to make sure that Autozone do get more of these pumps.
Regards
Danie.
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Post by ronnie on Jun 19, 2011 14:30:57 GMT 2
Hi Danie
The only thing about fitting an electric fan is it will cost more at the end of the day than buying the correct water pump. All conversions end up at costing more than just buying the (for example) fan. The fan then becomes a CRITICAL part of the cooling system and MUST be fitted with a thermo switch for automatic operation. This can increase the cost considerably.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jun 19, 2011 15:08:33 GMT 2
Thanks Danie Let me know as soon as you have checked if the water pump would actually allow for the fan. I am not really worried about the cowl as I have run it for years without one without overheating issues. However members must be prepared for some splashing if you travel through water and probably more dirt will end up in the air filter - but if you replace your filter as prescribed I don't see any problems. It would be great if you can get a contact person from Autozone's head office when you pick up your pump. Not a train smash if you can't. I agree Danie - it would be great to have a working/cheaper alternative Marius
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Post by danie on Jun 19, 2011 18:11:41 GMT 2
Hi Marius / Ronnie
Marius, I seem to have lost the contact number, but I hope to collect the pump tomorrow or day after tomorrow, and I will send you a Pm as soon as possible.
I will have a look at possibilities to make the fan fit - but personally, I am not too concerned about that . Most modern cars come with electric fans only - so I would seriously consider installing two electric fans on the Lada, and to remove the existing cooling fan completely.
The Fiat engine which I have bought recently came without a cooling fan, an my intention is to install two eclectic fans only.
Ronnie, maybe a cooling fan mod will not be that expensive. One of the Suppliers sells waterpumps for about R1400 , while the Saleri pumps sell for R325.00 at the moment. If the good quality eclectic fans which you were referring to still sell for R180.00 each, the total price of 2 electric fans + one Saleri pump will be less than R700.00
That is still half the price of a waterpump at one of the Suppliers - and one should be able to install a Thermo switch for less than the price difference (R700).
I believe that we should not miss this opportunity to negotiate with Autozone - if we do fail to negotiate now, we might face the possibility of losing the availability of these pumps for ever.
Danie
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Post by ronnie on Jun 19, 2011 19:29:29 GMT 2
Hi Danie
At Lada World the pumps are just below R200. Once you add the freight etc the price is still very low. I do not know if the cowl fits them or not. The only fans I could find down here only suck (engine side) and I prefer them on the front as they are far easier to mount and get access to if required. The thermo switch I think was about R70. You need a relay +-R35. I used two relays one for each fan. I did this for reliability reasons as even with Hella relays I have had 2 duds out of 8. I also have fused them separately as 1 fan draws about 7 amps. You must then add wire and down here they charge about R6 per meter (a total rip off). You may then want a over ride switch R10 plus the extra wire, so the price keeps rising. Before I fitted the air con the 2 electric fans were more than sufficient so there is no problem there, and that was with no mechanical fan.
Ronnie
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Post by danie on Jun 21, 2011 18:55:07 GMT 2
Hi Marius
I have picked up the Saleri pump at Autozone today. The guy at Autozone has confirmed that all pumps have been sold now - the last pump has been ordered by another local owner, and is currently on it's way to Pinetown as well.
The pump in my possession also came with a 2 year guarrantee- so I guess Saleri has already extended their guarantees a few years ago.
I will have a proper look at the pump tomorrow. Unfortunately I need to do a couple of other things this evening.
I will forward the Autozone Head Office contact number to you by PM. The guy at Autozone told me just to ask for "the person who orders Saleri waterpumps from Italy".
Regards
Danie
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spikes
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Post by spikes on Jun 21, 2011 19:08:09 GMT 2
Hi all Danie just confirmed what the guys at Autozone in White River said. They can and will order if required. regards Spikes
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Post by marius on Jun 21, 2011 20:18:59 GMT 2
Thanks again for the effort Danie I will be waiting for you to clear the matter on whether the fan will actually fit as I am not 100% sure that Koos has the original pump. Marius
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vincentc
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Post by vincentc on Jun 22, 2011 8:16:10 GMT 2
Hi - A slight hijack here
The water pump on Rusti is giving notice (I swear they all are psychically connected) I have a ordered an SKF water pump VKPC 88200 and will let you know how it fits in comparison to the original one.
I am sworn to secrecy as to how little I have paid for the pump - They retail at about R1100 but you can probably get up to 40% off if you know the okes behind the counter well enough.
They have 34 pieces ex stock EDC Belgium (central Warehouse)
I have gone for SKF as it is a brand that I know and trust - Nothing against Saleri or any of the other manufacturers.
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Post by marius on Jun 22, 2011 10:11:23 GMT 2
Hi Vincent
I have seen those on the net and I am sure they will fit perfectly. Your discount makes the pump worth while.
Post some pics when you get hold of it.
Marius
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Post by danie on Jun 22, 2011 19:34:23 GMT 2
Hi Marius I have had a closer look at the Saleri pump today, and this is some positive feedback: 1. The shaft diameter on the Saleri waterpumps (16mm) are exactly the same as the shaft diameter on the original Lada waterpumps, as well as the shaft diameter on an aftermarket waterpump (LGR, ordered from Graf Korvet) in my possession. So I decided to remove the Saleri pulley flange, and to press the original waterpump pulley flange to the Saleri shaft - which turned out to be dead easy. Now the fan obviously fit to the Saleri waterpump, without any further modifications. 2. The Saleri waterpump has got a casted "lump" at the top of the housing, which makes it impossible to mount the Cowl bracket at the top of the waterpump. Not a problem though - this "lump" could be removed by a hacksaw very easy, in order to mount the cowl bracket, and then the cowl itself. Removing this "lump" will not weaken the waterpump structure - the original and aftermarket pumps in my possession do not have these lumps - and apart from this lump, the structures on the different pumps are the same. 3. The Saleri pump does not come with the stud which holds the alternator bracket. Not a problem though - the stud on the original / aftermarket pumps do have the same thread as the thread on the Saleri pumps - so the studs can be removed, and then used on the Saleri watertpumps. (The thread on these studs are M10 X 1.25mm ) This is a pic of the Saleri waterpump, next to the LGR waterpump from Graf Korvet: - The lump at the top of the Saleri housing can be seen on the housing at the right. - An original waterpump pulley flange has been pressed to the Saleri pump on the right. - The original Saleri pulley flange which has been removed , can be seen below the pump on the right. - I have used a M10 x 1.25 bolt on the Saleri pump (alternator bracket) instead of the original Lada stud - which have been removed from the pump on the left). To fit the original pulley flange to the Saleri pump, a bench press is not needed - I have just placed the flange on a hard surface, and then used a bolt and hammer to drive the axle to the original flange : The Saleri pump has got a cast iron impeller , and a hammer blow could easily destroy the impeller - therefore I have used the bolt (seen at the top of the impeller) to drive the shaft to the flange. So to my mind, anyone with basic skills should be able to "make these pumps work like an original" - only thing is, with these alterations, the guarantee might be wavered. Danie
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Post by spikes on Jun 22, 2011 19:41:36 GMT 2
Thanks for the feedback Danie! Very positive. You are probably(read for sure) correct about the warranty if you cut the lump off. Not to sure about the stud to fit the bracket. That should not void the warranty. Spikes
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Post by Charles on Jun 22, 2011 19:45:51 GMT 2
Great news!
Charles
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Post by ronnie on Jun 22, 2011 19:49:33 GMT 2
Hi Danie
I would say the worst thing about the pump is having to do mods which may affect the guarantee. However for someone who can`t wait to import one it is a quick solution. I may be wrong but I think before fitting the pump it would be necessary to check the flange is driven to the correct position on the shaft for the fan belt pulley to run in line with the crank and alternator pulleys.
Ronnie
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Post by marius on Jun 22, 2011 19:53:00 GMT 2
Hi Danie That is indeed GREAT NEWS! Hopefully we can persuade Autozone to get some more of these pumps into the country. Judging by the pics it looks like the seal is a major improvement as well Marius
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Post by danie on Jun 22, 2011 20:07:29 GMT 2
Hi Spikes / Ronnie / Marius
To my mind these pumps could bring some peace of mind to most owners about a more affordable component - should it become freely available again.
Some owners use their Ladas as only means of transport, and waiting at least three weeks for an import does not make sense.
If Autozone do get more of these pumps in future, I think owners will have more time to buy these pumps in advance, and to make mods if needed.
Danie
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Post by ronnie on Jun 23, 2011 9:03:40 GMT 2
Hi Danie It would be nice if we knew when the water pump was going to pack in, bit this is not always the case. It would be annoying to buy a pump and have it on the shelf for 18 months and then realize you only have 6 months guarantee Ronnie
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Post by danie on Jun 23, 2011 18:15:59 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie The two year guarantee on my Saleri pump will probably expire before I start using the pump, but I am not too concerned about that. At the current price of the Saleri pumps I could have bought four Saleris at R1300.00 - which is still less than the price of a waterpump (about R1400.00) at one of the Suppliers. Anyway, I am not sure whether the pump for about R1400.00 does carry any guarantee - and I think there is a big possibility that 4 Saleris will outlast the pump for R1400.00. If I remember correctly, Andy once mentioned at this forum that the pumps for about R1400.00 are not all that good either. But one never knows - all Suppliers tend to knock the oppositions products, and always try to promote their own products. That's why I never take any "bashing" comments by any Supplier seriously. They all serve their own financial interest, and not the best interest of all owners out there. Regards Danie
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Post by marius on Jun 23, 2011 18:30:29 GMT 2
Hi Ronnie/Danie
I think the 2 year warranty says it all - the manufacturer thinks he has a solid product. Don't think many pumps carry a warranty of more than 12 months?
Marius
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Post by ronnie on Jun 23, 2011 19:12:18 GMT 2
Hi Danie
If you check the overseas suppliers the pumps are all just under R200 before the shipping etc. The landed costs will be close to the solaris. I would also hope they are a straight bolt on with no mods to be done.
Ronnie
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Post by vincentc on Jun 23, 2011 20:03:48 GMT 2
Just to throw another log on the fire, SKF are able to import their aftermarket pump for R1100.00 before any discounts.
You could probably negotiate at least a 40% discount off that price. If not let me know which is your closest SKF and I will let you know who to speak to.
SKF have 34 units ex Belgium and will have the component within the week. SKF Part number VKPC 88200
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Post by Ladaniva on Jul 9, 2011 23:58:13 GMT 2
Hi Marius,
Did you get any feedback from Autozone about the waterpumps yet? I would like to buy one for a spare.
Regards,
Fanus
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Post by danie on Jul 10, 2011 14:08:05 GMT 2
Hi Fanus / Marius Sorry about answering the question. Fanus, unfortunately the pumps are not available yet, and should only arrive once the next order of Saleri waterpumps do arrive in the country. But here's a possible deal: As indicated at the Supercharger thread, I am interested in a set of the Laser cut mounting brackets for the front diff. While I do not need the Saleri pump in my possession for the time being, and if the price of the Laser cut brackets are reasonable, I am prepared to swap the pump (bought @ R325.00) for a set of Laser cut brackets, and will pay the price difference into your bank account. As indicated above, a Lada fan coupler has already been pressed to the waterpump shaft, so the fan can be bolted to the coupler without any further modifications. The original Saleri coupler will also be forwarded to you. If possible, I would prefer 7mm mild steel plates. If you are interested, please let me know about the price of the brackets, and send me your bank account number by PM. Regards Danie
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