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Post by danie on Oct 11, 2009 16:47:04 GMT 2
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Post by danie on Oct 21, 2009 20:23:03 GMT 2
This is a Youtube video clip which indicates more technical detail during the Timing Chain adjustment.
(Thanks to Ahma from Sweden)
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Hercules
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Lada - your peace of mind to take on the world's vast landscapes.
Posts: 785
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Post by Hercules on Oct 31, 2009 11:13:47 GMT 2
Just something inportant when ajusting timing chain tension - THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
When ajustment is finish and before cap nut is replaced, CHECK that the lenght of the core sticking out of the tensioner housing is between 1mm and 3mm. If the core is flush with the tensioner housing, THE TENSIONER SHOE IS WORN DOWN AND IS DUE FOR IMIDIATE REPLACEMENT. The shoe can break any time and then it is costly to redo the head because when the timing chain jumped, Lada's bent valves.
Regards.
Hercules.
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Post by danie on Nov 1, 2009 7:44:17 GMT 2
Thanks for the warning Hercules.
I am sure that you are more than capable to assist Lada owners in your area - should they decide rather to make use of your service in this regard.
Regards
Danie
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Post by hotstuff on Nov 1, 2009 19:47:55 GMT 2
Totally agree with Danie if you are not familiar leave it to the mechanics like us but good to know for those who want to tackle. actually very easy.
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Post by marje46nuns on Apr 3, 2011 11:28:10 GMT 2
Hi Guys
Under my STARTER MOTOR thread I mentioned that the day before the starter jammed I stalled the car causing it to lurch forwards and on the drive home I noticed a ‘strange’ noise. Danie suggested that before replacing the starter I should remove the tappet cover and check the chain alignment as it may have jumped a tooth or two. Marius & Ronnie also indicated I probably shouldn’t tighten the chain before investigating.
I haven’t had a chance to do anything about this for the past few weeks but I think I may have found someone to help me. However, as I’m very nervous to let anyone I don’t know loose on my car I have few queries to help me understand the procedure. [1]If everything turns out to be lined up correctly can I safely assume that the chain hasn’t jumped a tooth? [2]If this is the case do I then get the starter installed and hope the noise was starter related or must I first investigate the possibility of a broken bolt? [3]If it isn’t aligned properly and has jumped a tooth what happens next – is it adjusted using the simple procedure referred to earlier in this thread? [4]Whatever the case, the chain will have to be adjusted shortly because it’s over 8000kms since it was last done.
Any assistance would be appreciated.
Thanks a stack.
NIKKI
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Post by marius on Apr 3, 2011 12:56:06 GMT 2
Hi Nikki [1]If everything turns out to be lined up correctly can I safely assume that the chain hasn’t jumped a tooth? I would say YES[2]If this is the case do I then get the starter installed and hope the noise was starter related or must I first investigate the possibility of a broken bolt? If you undo the tensioner bolt on the engine and there is no presure on the bolt when you push it in by hand then you know the tensioner is lying somewhere in the sump. Also - apparently your car will sound like a diesel [3]If it isn’t aligned properly and has jumped a tooth what happens next – is it adjusted using the simple procedure referred to earlier in this thread? Get a new chain and sprockets if you can detect any damage - the cain will most probably be stretched anyway if it jumped [4]Whatever the case, the chain will have to be adjusted shortly because it’s over 8000kms since it was last done. Good practice to do it on a regular basisI am hoping for the best Marius
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Post by danie on Apr 3, 2011 12:57:43 GMT 2
Hi Nikki
To answer your questions:
1. Yes, if everything lines up perfectly by itself - it means the chain did not jump any teeth, that the chain is not stretched / warn, and the gears are not warn.
But - to see if everything lines up correctly by itself, the engine must only be turned clockwise slowly - until the marks do line up eventually. Under no circumstances should the engine been turned anti - clockwise, because this will slacken the chain to a certain extend, and the marks will then not line up correctly.
In other words - one should not try to line up the marks be turning the engine forwards and backwards (clockwise and anti clockwise) !
2. If everything do line up 100% it obviously means it the chain did not jump any teeth - and it would be safe just to do the normal tension procedure.
3.If things do not line up correctly - it would not be safe just to do the normal tension procedure , specially if the marks are completely out of line.
Then the timing belt cover will have to be removed, and the Tentioner Shoe, Timing Chain, and Gears should be inspected properly.
You will also need another gasket for the Timing Belt Cover.
4. Correct - whatever the case, the normal procedure should eventually be carried out.
Danie P.S. Charles, you should also be able to air your views in this regard. I am obviously not a Lada specialist - my comments in this regard is just pure common sense, as all engines work at the same principle.
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Post by danie on Apr 3, 2011 13:01:13 GMT 2
Sorry, Marius already answered the questions while I was still battling to type with one finger . Danie
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Post by Charles on Apr 3, 2011 13:33:47 GMT 2
Hi Danie
I agree with you, one should never turn a engine backwards. On cars with spring tensioners it has a tendancy to then jump a teeth or two without you realising it and that can cause very sewvere engine damage.
Something else, can I remove the tensioner without the chain jumping? Want to remove the tensioner to check it before I remove the chain cover.
Charles
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Post by marius on Apr 3, 2011 14:03:54 GMT 2
Hi Danie ;D In my book you are a Lada specialist for sure! We can kiss our lucky LOCSA butt that we have guys like you on board. I am not going to mention any names (just to keep out of trouble) but we are truly blessed to have people around with great technical skills and knowledge Me - I am just willing to share and hopefully it can make a difference. Marius
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Apr 3, 2011 14:44:12 GMT 2
Something else, can I remove the tensioner without the chain jumping? Want to remove the tensioner to check it before I remove the chain cover. Charles Yes you can just keep some tension on the chain so that it doesnt slip off the crank pulley. Ari
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Post by Charles on Apr 3, 2011 15:52:15 GMT 2
Thanks Ari. i think most likely the shoe is just worn out.
Charles
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Post by danie on Apr 3, 2011 19:09:21 GMT 2
Just something inportant when ajusting timing chain tension - THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. When ajustment is finish and before cap nut is replaced, CHECK that the lenght of the core sticking out of the tensioner housing is between 1mm and 3mm. If the core is flush with the tensioner housing, THE TENSIONER SHOE IS WORN DOWN AND IS DUE FOR IMIDIATE REPLACEMENT. The shoe can break any time and then it is costly to redo the head because when the timing chain jumped, Lada's bent valves. Regards Hercules. Hi Charles Hercules mentioned in his post (above) that the length of the core which sticks out at the tensioner housing, can be used as indicator to determine whether the timing shoe is warn or not. Unfortunately I haven't figure out exactly how the tensioner works, and what the "tentioner core" means. Hopefully Hercules will be able to explain, and maybe we should send a few pics to show exactly what to look for. Danie
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Post by Charles on Apr 3, 2011 19:25:31 GMT 2
Hi Danie
I also do not understand what part I should be looking at. Maybe the cap must be taken off completely, if that is even possible? I am hoping to inspect mine tomorrow as Ventz only has one set in stock currently and isn't expecting stock very soon. I think I weill order the shoe in any case. Even if I don't use it now I will need it in future.
Charles
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Apr 3, 2011 19:44:07 GMT 2
The cap does come completely off.
Ari
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Post by Charles on Apr 3, 2011 19:52:17 GMT 2
Thanks Ari. I ordered a shoe in any case. I think that is most likely the culprit behind the noise.
Charles
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Post by marje46nuns on Apr 3, 2011 23:59:12 GMT 2
Hi Guys Thanks for all the response - I really appreciate it! I think I understand most of what you say but I'm going thru the manual, the parts catalogue and looking at Ahma's video to make sure! I'll get back to you on a few things I'm unsure of when I've done this. As the rand is strong against the dollar right now I will probably buy a new chain, tensioner shoe, etc., from my friend in Russia so they are handy if I need them. If I don't, I'm sure there will be no problem in finding a home for them. ;D Charles, a while back you indicated you might want something if anyone was ordering. If you do - let me know. Cheerio for now NIKKI
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Post by danie on Apr 5, 2011 18:45:50 GMT 2
Just something inportant when ajusting timing chain tension - THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. When ajustment is finish and before cap nut is replaced, CHECK that the lenght of the core sticking out of the tensioner housing is between 1mm and 3mm. If the core is flush with the tensioner housing, THE TENSIONER SHOE IS WORN DOWN AND IS DUE FOR IMIDIATE REPLACEMENT. The shoe can break any time and then it is costly to redo the head because when the timing chain jumped, Lada's bent valves. Regards. Hercules. Hi Hercules With reference to your post above, I took two pics of the Timing Shoe Tensioner on my Lada - the Cylinder Head has been removed from the engine block, so both sides of the Tensioner can be seen on the pics. The first pic shows the Tensioner - the Nut and Cap is stll in place, and a screwdriver points at the pin which press against the Timing Chain: At this pic the Nut and Cap have been removed from the Tensioner housing, and a screwdriver points at a pin at the center of the Tensioner Housing: I assume that the "pin" (pointed at with the screwdriver) is the "core" which you were referring to ? Danie
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Post by Charles on Apr 5, 2011 18:57:53 GMT 2
Mines cap doesnt want to come off. Just slips.
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Apr 5, 2011 20:01:41 GMT 2
It has a lot of thread and takes forever to turn off Charles.
Ari
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Post by Charles on Apr 5, 2011 20:22:14 GMT 2
Ari I will try again but it sounds like its slipping.
Charles
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Hercules
Veteran Niva Petrol Head
Lada - your peace of mind to take on the world's vast landscapes.
Posts: 785
Location: Gauteng
Town: Benoni
Registered: Oct 2, 2009 11:55:41 GMT 2
Karma: Exalt | Smite
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Post by Hercules on Apr 5, 2011 20:38:03 GMT 2
Hi Danie.
The core in the second photo is what I did refer to in my post. That is the indidicator that shows you the wear on the shoe.
Regards.
Hercules
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Post by Charles on Apr 5, 2011 21:10:20 GMT 2
Does anybody know how I can ghet the cap off if its slipping?
Charles
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Apr 5, 2011 21:13:19 GMT 2
That means its probibly stripped and you might need a new tensioner
Ari
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Post by Charles on Apr 5, 2011 21:18:57 GMT 2
Ari I also think so. So you donating me your spare?
Charles
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Post by Ari Bezuidenhout on Apr 5, 2011 21:36:58 GMT 2
Don't have a spare tensioner sorry only the shoe, guides.
Ari
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Post by Charles on Apr 5, 2011 21:50:02 GMT 2
Lol. Will order one with the shipment Nikki is getting. Or one from Ventz. Is cheap actually.
Charles
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Post by danie on Apr 5, 2011 21:55:17 GMT 2
Thanks Hercules
It would be very helpful if anyone who installed a new Timing Chain Shoe and Timing Chain could let us know how far that core sticks out when everything is still new.
Info like that can be used by owners to determine to what extend, and whether Timing Chain Shoes, and Timing Chains itself are worn on their Ladas . All they need to do then, is to take measurements of the core which sticks out on their Tensioners, and compare it with the measurement as reported here.
Danie
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Post by Charles on Apr 5, 2011 22:00:13 GMT 2
Good idea Danie.
Charles
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